(no subject)

[trinityvixen]

I feel like that episode should have been more upsetting than it was. As is, I am not mourning.

The only reason I was upset that my favorite character just exploded? Because it made Daddy Adama cry.

No, really, the whole stupid episode with Starbuck losing it? Yeah, that shit was dramatic (and funny) when Baltar was the only one seeing visions. Since then, the Chief's had fucked up suicide dreams; Lee had flashback-becomes-reality angst; we met the hottest Cylon invention yet: ChipGaius; and Adama lived with his dead ex-wife's ghost for a day. "Who's afraid/made insane by the big bad imagined sidekick?" stopped being the shit ages ago.

The only way to have salvaged this episode would to have had some hint that Kara hasn't really died. If they keep her dead, then there was never any point to any of the bullshit spouted by Leoben (which blows because his crazy shit is better than even Six's brand of the God-crazies; hell, his crazy is better than Six, Three, and the Hybrid's crazies combined), and really takes all the punch out of the beginning of this season with Kara and Leoben, which was the most fucked up shit that happened to Battlestar Galactica since we met a kick-ass crazy little admiral-that-could named Cain. The drama is seeing someone put through that kind of psychological confusion and torture struggle to fit in, figure her shit out, and make peace with herself again. It's not dramatic to have her blow herself up.

Sigh. But Edward James Olmos salvaged the grief that I should have felt for the loss. That man...there isn't anything he can't make me believe. Even the crap in his terrible episode with his anniversary, he was stellar. To watch him cry is to cry yourself (I had tears, but I blinked them back). When he pitches his fit, you are fucking terrified by his anger--no matter how awful or how toothless he seems, whenever Adama is angry, you are crapping your pants with terror or you are not paying enough attention to what Olmos is doing. In Adama's pain, I grieve for Kara.

Otherwise? Way to send off a once-pivotal character, who has some great hinted destiny that she now cannot fulfill, in the least dramatic, least moving, least believable way EVER. What with the being dead, n'shit, her "great destiny" is gonna be kinda hard to get at. Unless her "great destiny" is to be a Final Five Cylon....which is just so annoying, I have to stop thinking of this as possible or I'll be angry instead of just cheesed off. Then again, having her "destiny" and painterly premonitions coming out to mean that she's destined to be sucked into a gravity-heavy planet and exploded might be the stupidest thing imaginable, so I kind of have to hope she is a Cylon or else I hate this show a lot.

And then to go right on to the trial of Baltar from this horrid, Fleet-wide moment of loss? Terrific. Hey, remember Gaius Baltar? No, me neither. I really didn't even remember Kara Thrace until the reminders that she was still on this show came up after last week's ep. Last week's ep in which she was--curious, no?--playful, forceful, and taking no bullshit (as opposed to this week in which she was such a girl; did the people writing Cally and Dualla get their hands on her?). Fuck it.

Fuck it all. Now, there's nothing to stop the righteous Lee Adama brigade. Fantastic.

moonlightalice said it best tonight--it's a bad thing when you start cheering for the Cylons--you know, those evil, soulless, eternal, genocidal, God-freak machines. The only harm I wish them is wished upon the one or two models who have had the misfortune to become anything like human. Box 'em. The whole lines of the models that have any problematic individual robots, even. Put Leoben in charge. Get him and the hybrid to reproduce and make the machines more machines. Compared to what I want to have happen even to human characters I like at this point? All hail our robotic betters, y'all. The human prototypes can eat vacuum.

Comments

[ecmyers.livejournal.com]

Amazing how the non-spoiler parts of your message were still spoilery :(

But then I had heard rumors, so I guess I'm not too surprised.

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

UGH. I'm not even coherent enough to make a real reply to this, but these are my initial thoughts:
-I really hope you were right, and she's actually getting sucked into a wormhole and popped out at Earth or some other such nonsensical bullshit. Because it will still be awful writing, but at least it will give SOME MEANING to the three years of building up to her having some sort of purpose and destiny. AND it would make the line "I'll see you on the other side, Lee" a little less stupid.

-What this really means is that we are actually going to see MORE BORING LEE ANGST because he's the one who ok'ed her and believed in her and let her fly. And now he KILLED HER. Now Lee:Starbuck
::
Starbuck:Lee's Brother.

-Something that occured to me about last week's episode which I still maintained also sucked goat cock? The whole Baltar-writing-the-manifesto didn't work for me, it never will. But you know what WOULD have worked? If ZAREK had done it. Don't you pee yourself a little thinking about how cool that could've been?

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Oh no, they were spoilery!? I thought I did well! I said nothing specific! I said I didn't care about the "drama" and that I ::heart:: Cylonity! Oh noes! Sorry!

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I really hope you were right, and she's actually getting sucked into a wormhole and popped out at Earth or some other such nonsensical bullshit.

I would take that. I would believe that there was really a Raider going through the clouds and she got picked up by it and Apollo missed her ejecting. I don't care. If this is how they kill her after the wank-fest and wringing of hands and swooping drama over the departure of minor characters like Billy and Kat, I'll scream until they hear me in Bristol or wherever they film this show and they fix it.

That said, I still don't want Kara to be a Cylon. Because then the shit with her mother and the lesson of humanity being really as awful as we allow ourselves to be will be irrelevant. Because Kara was just a messed up robot in need of a reboot.

Now Lee:Starbuck::Starbuck:Lee's Brother.

Oh analogies! SAT nostalgia! But you're right, and I didn't even think of that when I fretted over Lee Adama Angst. Fuck it all. Well, maybe we don't have to worry. They're going to try Baltar next week and ensure that any dramatic momentum from that case and Kara's death is completely neutralized by sticking the beginning of one before the ending of another and not ending/dealing with the fallout from the second possibly ever, but definitely too late for it to feel real (just like they did with Kara's having the crazy-vision thing; if this had come up right around when she was throwing Kacey at her real mother, I might have believed it).

Yippie. So excited. Boring legal wrangling with Lee as moral crusader on behalf of Gaius Baltar getting in the way unnecessarily, and probably not being seen through to the conclusion, so that we can come back to mouring for the Fleet's best pilot some five weeks down the road when the season ends. Brilliant. Whoever is in charge of scheduling eps to view? Stellar work, man. I would sooner have taken this episode about ten episodes ago and just ignored the ret-conning of having Starbuck BE DEAD when she was crashed down on the Algae planet and getting rescued by Dee. We might even have been spared the boxing episode that way...

The whole Baltar-writing-the-manifesto didn't work for me, it never will. But you know what WOULD have worked? If ZAREK had done it. Don't you pee yourself a little thinking about how cool that could've been?

I kinda liked Baltar writing it because there was a bit of the old Baltar-schtick to it: how much of it was real and how much was it covering his ass with more lies that are essentially truths? It was a bit of the old duplicity and ambiguity that he hasn't had since being outed as the worst president ever (oh, and traitor to humanity once, twice, three, four...umpteen times). Zarek having written it would have made sense if he weren't elevated to the elite class. He, like Dee, are the polished slaves--gay Republicans, if you will--that prove the whole social stratification thing is bunk. "Look! We have your scumball Aerilon/Sagittaron/Geminon folk in government and as officers! Your assumptions about bias are completely untrue!"

Besides which, Zarek was never a rising star the way Baltar was. He wanted power, and he made no bones about it. Gaius siddled into power by playing at being conscientious (my God, that's hilarious still--Gaius with a conscience) and solicitous of the Fleet's rights et al. He's a bastard, but he's a popular hero because he rose for his smarts and promises of hard rewards (as opposed to illusory ones, like Earth; it just turned out that the hard rewards were too hard and also infected with Cylons). It makes sense Gaius would recast himself as a folk hero smacked down by Capricans. The scariest part is that the background might even be true, even if the reason for his fall is obviously his own fault.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

There was a scene this season that scared me like I haven't been scared since season one, and that was Roslin finally confessing to Adama as to what she'd done with Hera. Besides the fact it made me scream with joy that I was right and she'd kept him out of the loop, that scene made me nearly wet myself because Olmos burned through the screen with how much he made Adama hate in the moment. He said nothing, he just exhuded menace and I hid under a blanket. His nonverbal acting is second to none, and his ad-libbed choices are often what make a scene work.

At this point, he could tell me he was really a giant chicken in disguise, and I would believe him. Because...wow.

[negativeq.livejournal.com]

I can't accept Starbuck as a Cylon, because that cheapens everything about her character.

I feel Zarek was used badly this entire season. He really should have been a constant - popping up every other episode, and having a more active role. Gaius Baltar torture? He should have been present, he IS the VP after all. That ep with the sick Saggitations - Zarek should have been deeply involved, not 1-minute harbinger of doom to roslin. The worker strike? Smells like Zarek! How come he was absent in that?

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

I agree--they were spoilery. I can pretty much tell some major character died. But then, I don't really care. I'm amused by BSG at this point.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

That ep with the sick Saggitations - Zarek should have been deeply involved, not 1-minute harbinger of doom to roslin.

No fucking shit. I was like, why is Dee the most famous Saggitaron we know? I think of Zarek first, thanks, and his vengeance (back in the day, before he was defanged of late) would have been a lot more frontier and wonderful than the stupid ending they got.

I dunno. Maybe getting into the upper class changes a person. Everyone has seemed to have forgotten he was a terrorist bent on taking over the government. Then again, four months in Cylon jail does change a person--look at Tigh. Look at that person formerly known as awesome (aka Starbuck).

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Damn. I shouldn't even bother with any "non-spoilery" comments. I clearly suck at subtle (which, I think I've known for a while now, so I've no excuse, sorry).

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

To be fair, a couple of other people on my f-list also had "Why, BSG? WHY????" type posts, so it wasn't hard to figure out. Of course, then I had to click on the spoiler-cut to figure out who.

Two flavors of starbuck

[arcane-the-sage.livejournal.com]

The way I see it there are one of two things the writers are doing to Starbuck with last nights eps:

1) Starbuck the toaster. Honestly I don't know who this would screw with more, the fleet or the cylons. Accepting kara into the cylon ranks as one of the 5 would make the other cylon models go apeshit. Leoben's line would be grinning, Boomer's line might like having an old friend back, but the rest would be 10: execute command "twitch" 20: goto 10. Mean while having starbuck turn out to be a cylon would screw with Lee and Roslyn (Adama would be shocked but not too hurt by it given that toasters' actions bother him more than toasters themselves). The rest of the fleet would just join the cylons in twitching.

2) Starbuck the oracle. Starbuck both did and did not die. She exists but not as we knew her. I can't get into this too much more without giving away what I believe is going to be tapped from the original series (which some of you have asked me not to talk about). This along with other "interesting" things that have been going on in the series would show that there are more than just those 2 factions playing around in the BSG universe.


Sadly I believe #1 more likely because I don't think the writers are brave enough to pull off #2. #2 will be more and more likely though if they don't touch upon what happened to Starbuck till the beginning of the next season. Honestly I hope it turns out to be #2 because I'll enjoy some of the "wtf?" reactions from the rest of you ^_^

[viridian.livejournal.com]

So they really did kill Kara? I'd heard spoilers to that effect in advance and so didn't believe it. Still sort of don't believe it. No way did they kill off one of their main characters. She's got too big a fanbase.

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

Agreed on ALL POINTS. Rock on.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I don't think she's gone either. But it would have been awesome if they'd done a good sendoff and had the cajones to keep it that way.

[viridian.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't know how they did it, but you really don't kill off that major a character without making it dramatically good. Just... no. Granted I'm still on Season 2, but as far as I can tell the writers are pretty good about their dramatic choices. This isn't Lost where people die shittily and pointlessly every few weeks, and I don't think they're going for a Jossverse type "senseless but dramatically perfect" death, from what I've been reading.

And just... I really can't see any scenarios in which the writers decided we just no longer need Kara. I mean, what? Am I wrong in thinking she's a fan favorite? She's kind of an asshole, no doubt, but I'm fairly sure we're supposed to if not sympathize with her, at least empathize and identify and such.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

This isn't Lost where people die shittily and pointlessly every few weeks

Ah, so you're not far enough into season 2 then :) BSG's lost serious momentum here. It's not been improved in the third season overly. The best eps were like the 5-6 at the start, and it's been hollow drama ever since.

And Kara is still needed. She never got the dressing down she deserved, really. She never found peace--she is not suicidal either. I buy that from Apollo, not Starbuck. She's a fierce clinger to life. This was bullshit.

Re: Two flavors of starbuck

[wellgull.livejournal.com]

Honestly I hope it turns out to be #2 because I'll enjoy some of the "wtf?" reactions from the rest of you

See, this is just uncomfortably reminiscent of some stuff that happened earlier in the show -- where I originally felt it to be going downhill -- which was when the writers started doing things and going places that made sense only in the context of "this is how it was in the original series." I'm afraid I can't get more specific than that, because I don't remember, but I really hope that whatever they do, they manage to ground in the internal logic of this show in this continuity, without reference to the previous show as a crib sheet.

So, that's my vague ramblings.

[wellgull.livejournal.com]

Meh. One of the symptoms of BSG sucking (which it's been doing lately, by which I mean "for the last 8 months") is that the characters aren't continuous; they're vaguely related, and have the same names, but their reactions etc. are dictated by the plot rather than vice versa. If we need Balthar to be a convincing populist leader this week, then sure! Go for it! Never mind about how he never saw it necessary to bring any of that up in the previous election... blah.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

That's like the TWoP review of the episode with the random doctor where they described it as "the Helo suit." That's what people are. When they need Adama to be the softie, he wuvs everyone. The next week, he will put a bullet through Cally's brainpan. It's gotten to be ridiculous.

Re: Two flavors of starbuck

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Starbuck as a Cylon ruins the character. Period. The talk of her destiny becomes less portentious and more subconscious reveals of Leoben's part, which in turns makes his mysticism less mysterious and more bullshit. I like Leoben's creepy awareness and relation to the infinite, and I would hate to see it undermined by Starbuck the Cylon.

The theory of the final five--who they are, what their purpose is, why the other models can't know them--needs to be better elucidated than we've seen (it needs to be revealed even a tiny bit because it hasn't been at all) and it would have to be a very good reason before I'd take Kara as one of them.

As to Kara becoming an oracle...what, we need another one? Roslin's been seeing glimpses of the future in her drugs; Gaius sees it in himself and in his imaginary girlfriend; and there seem to be no end of crazy prophetesses running around the Fleet. Over saturation!