trinityvixen: (Default)
trinityvixen ([personal profile] trinityvixen) wrote2004-10-25 11:46 am

Writing Club, redux

Well, apparently, some people are interested, though it seems only to be, at last count, five or so. In this case, I will probably restrict it to LJ postings for now, at least until we can scare up some more interest. This has the downside of not being able to post anonymously if you choose, unless we wish to create a dummy LJ account whereby all members can post as they all have access to it. We'll see.

I happen to think Michelle's suggestion of making submissions anonymous isn't a bad one, though writing styles will probably show and tell after a while. However, if we do that, it means someone has to coordinate and assign people for each week, and, in weeks where there'd be only a couple of submissions, chances are good anonymity wouldn't last long. If people would prefer protected anonymity, we can do it, and we'll figure out who to assign to the task of collecting the papers. At best case, I'd say there wouldn't be a collector, just people would come and plunk down their contribution while the rest of the group settled in, and then we could all turn to the pile and start working through it. Other suggestions are welcome, but I agree with Michelle that anonymous pieces tend to generate freer-flowing commentary, though I caution against insensitivity and re-iterate rule 6, that constructive criticism is the only kind welcome at the table.

Also, authors of anonymous submissions in my writing class weren't allowed to comment on their own works, thus making it incredibly easy to figure out who'd written the piece under discussion after a few rounds (unless you were that asshole who was in my class first semester and took umbridge enough to argue, "But don't you think the author..." when I pointed out that the chances of his character holding his guts in with a tied-off jacket around the midsection was as realistic as the pole coming out of his ass any time soon). Not so with our group, I think. The key to being anonymous is that you may comment as an author, but you can't reveal intentions without giving yourself away. Give clues, though, if you think it would help. Saying "I think he/she meant this..." is something anyone would say, so it works. Just try to contain yourself if someone seems to be extremely not in favor of your work (this is hard to do, and it, too, doesn't always stay in with the help of a strategically placed windbreaker).

And, lastly, Michelle informed me on the last post I made about this that she had proposed a writing group herself a few months back, and would like credit for doing so. So, here, have at it. I would like to point out, as I have been doing, that it doesn't matter to me where the group comes from so long as it does come together. Furthermore, this isn't a question of credit, not at all. This is just an inspiration I had at work, fueled by fond nostalgia for the workshops I did in the creative writing program. That we had an lj community ready to go was both serendipitous and, at the time I proposed the idea (anew, as I've been amply reminded), a coincidence--you'd be surprised how many things in life are.

[identity profile] ecmyers.livejournal.com 2004-10-25 09:24 am (UTC)(link)
Personally I don't think anonymity is necessary. I don't expect that people will let personal issues affect their perception of a work, at least I hope that wouldn't be the case. A compelling reason not to have anonymous submissions is that the author may very well want to ask follow-up questions to other people's comments, to clarify what was said. But authors shouldn't be allowed to comment until after all of the criticism, to keep things moving.

[identity profile] trinityvixen.livejournal.com 2004-10-25 10:02 am (UTC)(link)
I've done classes both ways, and to be honest, neither system is perfect.

Known authors in one class didn't allow authors to comment until the end, which was okay, excepting that it mean they had to remember any comment they wanted to follow-up on, and, hey, we're all human, this is not always possible.

Basically, I think we could do it either way. If someone is in charge of submissions, they will know who's going for the week, they can tap people for the contribution, and they'll be the only one who knows if someone wants to be anonymous. This is entirely acceptable, we just need someone willing to do it.
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[identity profile] viridian.livejournal.com 2004-10-25 02:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, how about this: the submissions are anonymous til all comments are made, then the author can ask questions. I think (at least at first) that it's a good idea to be anonymous. We'll probably get comfortable enough later not to bother, but at first I'd rather not know who is who, so that I can write things like "I think this first sentence sucks donkey balls" or "I would totally have sex with the author of this story based on its coolness." Well, those were exaggerations. Except I think I did once write the latter in an anonymous class. :P

But you are right, eventually we will know each other's writing, but by that point I think everyone will be comfortable with being honest and so we won't worry.

PS: Thank you Dayle, for acknowledging my failed attempt at starting this group in July. Whyyyy are the same people I asked before now signing up? Y'all hate me.

[identity profile] ecmyers.livejournal.com 2004-10-25 08:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I see your point, and I think there are definitely advantages to anonymity, but I'd like to think we all can take criticism. For the record, I'm totally fine with you opening a critique of my story with "I think this first sentence sucks donkey balls." I want to hear things like that, provided you're being honest and not just getting back at me for something I said or did. And if my story is so good that people want to have sex with me, well, I want to hear that too.

Also, I don't remember if I was invited into your writing group, but at the time I was in my own group (which I think you had inquired about). Since that one seems to have fallen apart for the nonce, I am free to explore other groups. It's all a matter of timing.

[identity profile] fairest.livejournal.com 2004-10-25 06:31 pm (UTC)(link)
My vote is as follows: firstly, to have meetings in person, because I find that ambition goes right out the window when things are relegated to livejournal alone, and second to have readings and reviewings not be anonymous. It's in part a matter of practicality--as long as anonymity isn't an issue, the author(s) preparing works for that week could be responsible for their own copymaking--and in part a matter of personal satisfaction, since I take things more seriously when I know they're going to have my name attached to them. On a more personal level, I'm serious about a writing critique, and I think we're all adult enough not to take writing criticism as a form of personal criticism; in short, I don't see the point of anonymity. Particularly when there are so few people in the first place. I'd rather be open about what we're sharing.
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[identity profile] viridian.livejournal.com 2004-10-27 02:32 pm (UTC)(link)
It's nice that you're okay with having things be not-anonymous from the start, but if having someone's name attached to their stuff is going to make *even one* person uncomfortable, then you've just ruined the whole experience for that person. I'd rather play it safe.
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[identity profile] viridian.livejournal.com 2004-10-27 10:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, it's not anybody else's fault that you lack the self-discipline to take your own writing seriously unless you think you'll be getting some kind of credit for it.

[identity profile] fairest.livejournal.com 2004-10-28 12:49 pm (UTC)(link)
There's no call to be insulting; I was making a point about motivation, and it doesn't apply to just me.

[identity profile] fairest.livejournal.com 2004-10-28 12:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, but at the same time, I feel the experience would be a little souring for me as well if I felt I had to be anonymous about it--a big part of it for me is being ready to do that. Anyway, let's sort it out at the first meeting as we've been discussing to get an idea of how the group feels as a whole.

[identity profile] trinityvixen.livejournal.com 2004-10-26 08:21 am (UTC)(link)
So, in person seems to be the way people want to do it. How's next week? Maybe next Thursday, giving us ample recover-from-the-election time? I offer Carrie's and my place, all are welcome, bring friends and copies of work to share. For the first meeting, I'd like everyone to bring something. Anything. Just ideas? Fine. First line, fine. Poems, fine, anything is fine, and I mean it.

Wotcha think?

[identity profile] arcane-the-sage.livejournal.com 2004-10-26 01:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Next Thur sounds good (though in principle Thurs are when I should be showing up to a class). I think I can have a little something typed up by then (not so much a story but a setting in which my stories will be taking place). Just as a heads up, what I have in mind may be a non-linear story progression (let's just say causality will be a bit warped at times).

[identity profile] bigscary.livejournal.com 2004-10-26 10:53 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not really up for participation as a writer right now, but I do have something to offer: I'm willing to act as a particularly nasty critic (nasty in the good way), and also as an anonymizer, if people have the desire to do the occassional anonymous submission.

[identity profile] trinityvixen.livejournal.com 2004-10-26 11:38 am (UTC)(link)
Both positions are necessary, truly, so you are more than welcome to participate. We don't want nasty critics, even nice ones, just constructive critics. Building up not taking down, and more rhetoric I can't remember but consider to have been placed here.