(no subject)

[trinityvixen]

This is Battlestar Galactica-related. If you don't want to read it, feel free to comment on my shirt-buying needs or the fact that even women hate women in South Dakota.

After rewatching the season three premiere again with feiran last night, I realized she was yet another to express dislike for Cally. Why do people not like Cally? I can honestly say there isn't anyone on Battlestar Galactica that I dislike. I find things that people do alternately heroic and abhorrent (usually in the same episode), but I can't ever stay mad at them or stay in love with them.

Cally is, admittedly, a tad one-note on a show with serious depth to each and every character, but, honestly, I find her no better no worse than, say, someone like Jammer, who's doing the archetypal foot-in-both-worlds double- and triple-agent walk. What about Duck? The emotional wreck with nothing better to live for after the loss of his wife (contrast, to, say Kara, who lost Zak and yet kept on going, maybe not entirely healthily, but she didn't stop living when he did). Saying a character fills one purpose (in-bed-with-the-Devil Jammer again) doesn't mean they're dislikeable.

And the actress playing Cally isn't terrible. She's as good as any other minor on the show, at least. Why hate her? Why hate anyone on Battlestar Galactica? I mean, I haaaaaated Kat for the entire length of "Scar," and, yes, she still annoys me, but I confess I don't actually hate her. She's grown up a frakkin' lot since taking over as CAG, and she's gotten scarily competant (as opposed to hot-sticking it to Starbuck; it mirrors Starbuck's own ability to tame herself to a command position). If I had to pick someone I disliked anywhere near what some of y'all feel for Cally, Kat would take the brunt of that, and the Dee of second half of last season would get some, too, if only for being all up in Apollo's grill about dicking around on her while she was totally doing the same thing to poor Billy. I liked what scenes she had in the premiere because they showed her as tough and honest and not necessarily unloving for it. I admire that.

The shorter version of all that is that this is a poll: who can you say you honestly don't like on Battlestar Galactica? If you can name one, I'll be majorly impressed.

Comments

[teneda.livejournal.com]

Roslyn.

If for no other reason than not taking a more active role in the Resistance. GREAT leader. Strong, independent, smart.

And then she just lets Tygh take over.

Ugh.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I think Roslin's way of doing it was softer than Tigh's but ultimately would have been successful. The Cylons knew it and released Tigh, who botched things right up.

But overall, there's no way I could ever hate Roslin. She's too awesome in so many ways.

[arcane-the-sage.livejournal.com]

Well I'm in the hate Roslin camp, though for more personal reasons. Right now she's the one character I'd mind the least if they killed off (sure she plays a major part in the story...... but that doesn't mean that she's needed).

Cally, though a weak (as in not fully flushed out) character still has a part to play. For me I like her a tad bit more now than in the previous two seasons since she seems like she's about to be forced to grow. I just hope that my hope is not misplaced.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Roslin got some of her comeuppance for the hubris she displayed last season. She'll get the rest of it when Hera is discovered, I'm absolutely certain.

[kent-allard-jr.livejournal.com]

Ellen Tigh doesn't seem to have many redeeming features, even if she is committed to her husband in an odd way. (If she truly betrays the resistance to the Cylons she's dumber than a skunk.)

Cally may seem uncomfortably close to a domestic violence victim who keeps going back to her boyfriend because She Really Really Loves Him. The situation isn't really the same, of course, but she may remind people of that type of character.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I agree that Ellen Tigh doesn't have many redeeming features and she plays floozy very well, but some of her expressions when she's fucking Cavil just show how much she hates herself for having nothing else to offer but her body to get her husband back. That's...incredibly horrid and difficult, and I have to respect her a little for that.

I agree that Cally is kind of like an abuse victim. The Chief's love for her is also initiated off of guilt for having hurt her, which isn't in anyway healthy--it's blackmail. Cally is sort of an abuse victim, but she's also something of a stalker-esque character on top of that, confusing who's really to blame for them falling in together (she killed Boomer, after all). It's twisted and sick, and it's just because everyone has massive Chief love that we kinda forgive him for his half of the responsibility and not her. But I don't think Cally is trapping him entirely just as I don't think he's entirely staying with her because of guilt and gratitude that she forgave him (I think it definitely started on that note, and, as such, is probably doomed, because that's no way to start a relationship, but it's not totally devoid of some kind of love). We'll have to see.

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

Major characters I hate:
Helo. For god's sake. I don't know why everyone likes this guy. I wasn't really into him during his entire stint on Caprica, but once he got back to BSG OH MAN did he get annoying. I am sick of his whiny bullshit love crap. Hate him.
Ho!Dee. Hopefully she'll shape up, soon, but so much of what I loved about her were her interactions with Billy. Oops.

Minor characters I hate:
Kat. I will never, ever like her. She's annoying and stupid and not in a way that's actually interesting (like, say, Ellen Tigh).
Jammer. Where the fuck did he come from? I don't care about him and I'm tired of seeing him.

And I would like to defend Cally. I adore her. I have always adored her. She is a girl who got in way over her head (and it broke my heart when she said all she wanted to do was go to dental school), and has really pulled through everything. I think she changed a lot after the prisoners took her hostage and all that, but what drives her and has always driven her is her love for Chief, even before they were actually together. She has such loyalty, and it's so redeeming and crucial in this kind of world.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I liked Helo on Caprica, actually, but I feel you on being tired of his lovey-dovey stuff on the ship. He's incredibly noble and I believe he is in love, but he does better when he's expressing that with people who AREN'T CapricaBoomer. When he and the Chief are together, when he goads Starbuck about it, that's when I like Helo best.

Word about Kat, though, like I said, I mostly just ignore her. Starbuck-wannabe. Ellen Tigh is awesome. I mean, flawed, not all that bright, but tragic in her own way (she and Tigh are so perfect for each other, I'm glad they are in love actually).

I'm glad you like Cally. I do, too. She's playing the innocent, which is hard to do and not have it be sanctimonious, and I think the actress manages it. In the prison ship episode, she really impressed me, and her shooting Sharon is probably the hardest to reconcile with the rest of her behavior, since she's normally so mild, but with the prison ship episode in mind, it makes so much sense. You can only push Cally so far on what she believes and feels and then she'll react and it won't be safe for the ones assuming her innocence means a meakness that has no mettle underneath.

I still wish the issue of the Chief taking up with a) the woman he beat to a bloody pulp and b) the woman who killed his former lover had been more thoroughly addressed. I hope they get to it in flashbacks, because otherwise, it seems more like a guilt/gratitude trip on his part, and obsession on hers, and they're both better than that.

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think Ellen Tigh is awesome. I just love hating her. And I think it's okay that the Chief and Cally didn't get all wrapped up in that stuff. It was, by now, a long time ago, and they've both hurt each other a lot--Chief by a) beating her up and b) being visibly in a relationship with another woman while Cally obviously was in love with him; and Cally shooting Boomer. I think that only after all of that was done, after the Chief was really honest-to-goodness over Boomer, and Cally really honestly forgave him for hurting her, were they able to be together in a way that was actually productive and mutual instead of just guilt/ gratitude/ obsession/ whatever.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I think one of the best scenes in last season was the Chief calmly deciding in jail and telling Helo that he gave up on Sharon. Okay, so he probably thought he was going to be executed, but I like that he came to the decision, made it in an unemotional way (so not in the heat of any particular moment), and stuck to it. He seemed so over it, really, truly over it, that when the season finale came along, I was shocked to think he wasn't (but I could believe he was still harboring doubt and guilt as a result because some part of him understood, as no one else except GalacticaSharon did, that she had no idea what she'd done).

And yay for Ellen Tigh. Favorite Ellen Tigh bit? When the lady who demanded Adama hand over CapricaSharon took over the bar, and Lee tried to sneak away, taking Ellen with him and she totally went, even though she thought he was taking her into the bathroom for hanky panky. Loved it. I love the assumption that when we don't see her, she's off catting it up, and that's okay with everyone. It's just Ellen.

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

Hahaha I still love when she RAMS her high-heel into Lee's crotch.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

::giggles:: I think she'd slipped the shoe off, actually, and was giving him the full foot rub to the balls. His reactions are priceless.

[anomilygrace.livejournal.com]

I'm completely with you. I can't think of a single character on BSG that I hate. Sometimes their actions annoy me or I wish that the writers would give some type of consistent character development, but I at least like and mostly adore all the characters on the show.

Dee is possibly the closest to dislike from me and that's only because of 2.5. I loved her season one. She was absolutely fabulous until they decided to somehow make her fall in love with Lee.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

They really took the cuteness out of Dee and made her into someone I didn't recognize. Dee's always been different, a bit softer but not a pushover, and she and Billy served as a nice counterpoint to the rest of the couples we saw who were obsessive (everyone+everyone), or dysfunctional (ditto), or not even all that nice to each other (thirded). It showed that not all convention had gone the way of the Colonies, while at the same time presenting a cute, believable relationship begun on simple flirtation that was free of all the baggage of the other relationships.

Then they ruined that by making it a melodramatic love triangle. Lee is obviously ambivalent about her at best, then suddenly they're together. I buy that from Starbuck--she's got the confidence and the libido to throw a nobody into bed and see where shit goes. Lee's too uptight, still, and he's a commitmentphobe (which is why his relationship to Starbuck is so messed up--it makes him commitment-crazed, and her commitmentphobic; any relationship that makes you act completely opposite from your normal isn't healthy, to say nothing of the rest of their history).

I also object to moving Dee into position as the XO on Pegasus. Talk about promoting anyone. I can't believe there weren't better candidates still on the ship. It's a contrivance, and it better generate more tension as Lee and Dee break down (they will, I guarantee it). Otherwise, I'll just be pissy because it's a promotion that makes no sense (moving Helo to Gaeta's position isn't a big jump, as he was an ECO to begin with, so he can coordinate stuff like Gaeta had to in CIC probably pretty easily--and he's even got the fussy thing going on like Gaeta did).

Don't hate Dee, especially since she didn't back down from Lee sulking in the premiere, but she comes as close as Kat for me to being someone actually unlikeably on this show.

[smartylibrarian.livejournal.com]

Hmm... interesting question.

I really hated Dee in the second season. She seemed to serve no purpose other than to 'snare' Lee and get Billy killed. I really hate it when female character's stories are reduced to 'which guy do I want?!?' I liked what we saw of her as a shrewish bitch in the first two episodes of season 3, so I might change my mind on this one.

I was also not a fan of Caprica!Sharon through seasons 1 and 2. She is just so cold and ragey. And I didn't really care about the Helo/Sharon relationship from her point of view. Again, she seems to have undergone an interesting change in character, so I might change my mind.

I've already changed my mind on Anders. I didn't like him up until he was rescued from Caprica. His character acted too much like a McGuffin throughout the second part of season 2, existing for no reason except to give Starbuck more angst. Now that he is with the main action, I like him quite a bit.

I do love a lot of the smaller (sometimes annoying) characters. I love Cally, Ellen, Kat, Hot Dog, Socinus, Crashdown, and that glorious Sgt. Hadrian, whom we haven't seen in ages.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I don't even remember Sgt Hadrian...was that the woman holding the inquiry when GalacticaSharon sabotaged something? Or was it the cute guy on Pegasus that Starbuck winked at?

Dee was reduced, which I dislike, but I think she'll make a come back and drop-kick Lee in the seat of the pants when she realizes he's going to either stay a pansy forever or else, when he gets his mack on, go right back to being obsessed with 'buck. CapricaSharon amused me with her story with Helo while they were surviving on Caprica together before she was pregnant. It was such an innocent portrayal, you could see why he thought she was the Sharon from Galactica. And when she and Helo finally got physical, she ran and told the other Cylons so cutely and all excited--"We had sex!"--I kinda liked her. Mostly, she wasn't all that interesting except for a few instances when she was free before getting back to Galactica, and when Hera was born ("I love you so completely," okay, that one had me sniffling, because how can you not love Helo?). Otherwise, meh, don't hate her, don't really think much of her--unless she makes good on Adama's trust and helps get the people off New Caprica.

I think Anders suffered from lack of exposure. What I saw of him in "Downloaded," I liked a lot because it was wicked hardcore. The guy's been fighting a gorilla war on a nuked planet for upwards of a year. That's rough, to say the least. Then he gets to New Craprica (yes, spelling mistake intentional) and winds up in the same mess, only he can't use the same tactics because the Cylons have a different method of killing people off. Guy must be a little ticked off about that.

You cannot not like Ellen Tigh. She's too hysterically awesome. Hot Dog was always my favorite nugget (where is he, darn it!?).

[smartylibrarian.livejournal.com]

Sgt. Hadrian was the woman who held the hearings when G!Boomer the Chief got into trouble and poor, doomed Socinus got sent to the brig. I liked her a lot, she was just so tenacious in her investigation and tough-minded in her thinking.

I, too, am curious about where Hot Dog wandered off to. Did he stay with the fleet? Is he working construction down on New Caprica? Maybe he's bartending in one of NC's crappier bars!!

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Heh, Hot Dog tending bar. I could believe that. He's got a mug for a bartender. He just looks beleagured. I heard he was dead, though, and I've been trying to confirm. Maybe he was killed off in the webisodes?

[smartylibrarian.livejournal.com]

I don't know! I was a bad fan and didn't watch all of the webisodes. I'll have to read the TWoP recap.

I hope he's not dead. He was such great comic relief. Remember when he was in the shooting range with Starbuck and Apollo and they started losing oxygen? That was awesome.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Totally. He just had the best serious-comic face because you weren't sure which it was half the time. In "Scar" he just sort of sat and listened to the new guys making asses of themselves and you thought he might be amused, but then he slapped a dead pilot's name tag over on one of the soon-to-be-dead ones and liek whoa.

Ah, I need to watch the webisodes, too. I mean Jacob will do a good job recapping, but 9/10s of the scenes on this show are sold by the acting, and I'm betting as good as a recap is, it won't hold a candle to the scenes themselves. Gotta get on that.