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trinityvixenDisturbing things times whoa:
1) Lee sending Dee to rescue Kara on Sam's behalf.
This was the compelling bit that would have been better were it not for the obnoxious Apollo/Starbuck in the previous weeks. As with the episodes in the second half of season two, the problem lay in focusing too narrowly on the parties at the center and ignoring the ripples outward. People cheating on spouses? Not a big deal. Trusting the life of a mistress to your in-the-know wife? Eep. Also scary: Anders face when he listens to Apollo order Dee out after Starbuck. There, for the first time, Sam falls apart with regards to his otherwise canny knowledge about the BSG adrenaline twins. It's a measure of respect being granted that Sam had never credited to Lee for obvious reasons that have nothing to do with jealousy or hurt pride (like I've said before: Sam gets that Kara doesn't remain faithful but she remains committed; his problem with Apollo is that Apollo doesn't get that and thinks he can have Kara to himself and take her away). Suddenly, he watches Lee put himself in a shit position that will, guaranteed, cost him dearly (either with Dee's life or the favors she will extract in return, carved out of his guilt) on Anders' behalf. No surprise at all that everything--militarily--falls right into line. Fuck if Anders and Apollo together aren't as scary a guerilla team as Starbuck and Apollo are in space.
2) Helo shooting Athena.
I don't think this even needs to be said, but damn. I didn't find his eventual confrontation with Roslin less compelling as his anger is so twisted up with his obvious psychosis from having just suicided his wife for her. It's so weird to see Helo even acknowledge the fucked up things his wife can do, as he's been trying so hard to make her as good as human to have her fit in with him on Galactica. He screams after she's gone and it's not pain; it's insanity. It's Baltar-worthy. He is married to the monster, and even though she is tame, she will never be any other than what she is. I feel it's a cheat to have him just take her back in her new body. Yes, same person (hell, the Doctor manages!), but think about the clues we use about a person's physical presence, the memories we make of them from touch and taste and smell--senses that are more primal and go a longer way towards assuaging our fears or doubts than memory can. A lot of Athena's inclusion comes from her maintaining as human a profile as possible--the woman, in mind and body and spirit, that Helo survived with and fell in love with has never changed. Now she comes with a body untouched by him, her pregnancy--the dissociation, my God! How disturbing it might have gotten yet.
3) Boomer threatening Hera.
It has always been a self-interested impulse that led Boomer to establish human-Cylon contact in the form of New Caprica. Her disappointment with not being able to re-insert peaceably or play middleman between opposed interests has led her here, and finally she acknowledges it to herself in the form of explosive hatred. She hates not getting to be as human as Athena, hates that she is a corrupted Cylon who cannot find mystical destiny in the hybrid. And finally the DEMAND LOVE movement comes to its natural end, imploding, self-eating, as Caprica breaks Boomer's neck. Caprica, who began her duties by blinking out the life of a child, sacrifices herself to preserve that spark in another baby. Caprica, the infiltrator, stands exposed on Galactica's hanger deck and goes to a cell. They have switched places now, Boomer the baby killer, Caprica the human wannabe. As if Caprica couldn't get any more heartbreaking. I wonder if her Chip!Gaius will help her weasel out of trouble like his Chip!Six drove him nuts.
4) Three apologizing to one of the final five Cylons.
It makes the revelation incredibly pointed. The other four are unimportant to D'Anna which means nothing, but that she knows the one and says "sorry" to it might mean even less even as it appears to be more. D'Anna met everyone on board Galactica, she stepped on toes that aren't any less sore for her being exposed as a Cylon on New Caprica. It's maddening to think that she might have been sincere, humbled for the first time ever (her madness has been surprisingly prideful thus far). It's like seeing Six left behind by both her lovers on a quest more insane than her own. How insane or inane the final five end up being will determine how upsetting it is that her reaction is so penitent after so long a period of crazy headstrongness.
She doesn't know two of them, looks right past them. She half-smiles at the third, as you might at an acquaintance of no real import. The fourth she does a sort of double take, as if she has to really believe that it's really that person in this place (more interesting still than her reaction to the fifth). "Forgive me, I had no idea." Said with wonder, with sadness and apology. To someone wronged, someone scorned, someone brushed off with snark? Anders, Lee, Gaeta, respectively?
5) Baltar in a body bag.
Just. So. Weird. Because I believe Gaius has firmly sold his sanity to make room for his ego and to crowd out his sense of personal responsibility and that this need to be a Cylon is a tragic pipe dream. And if he's dead--he is never coming back. That's very upsetting. In the way that outing Baltar ruined the duplicity he operated under, only much, much worse.
God, Anders and Lee carried him out to the stretcher together. Wow, okay, that was kind of hot, actually. In another life, they were friends. In another life, Lee and Kara were enemies. In this other life, things were better for both those reasons.
This is not my beautiful house...
1) Lee sending Dee to rescue Kara on Sam's behalf.
This was the compelling bit that would have been better were it not for the obnoxious Apollo/Starbuck in the previous weeks. As with the episodes in the second half of season two, the problem lay in focusing too narrowly on the parties at the center and ignoring the ripples outward. People cheating on spouses? Not a big deal. Trusting the life of a mistress to your in-the-know wife? Eep. Also scary: Anders face when he listens to Apollo order Dee out after Starbuck. There, for the first time, Sam falls apart with regards to his otherwise canny knowledge about the BSG adrenaline twins. It's a measure of respect being granted that Sam had never credited to Lee for obvious reasons that have nothing to do with jealousy or hurt pride (like I've said before: Sam gets that Kara doesn't remain faithful but she remains committed; his problem with Apollo is that Apollo doesn't get that and thinks he can have Kara to himself and take her away). Suddenly, he watches Lee put himself in a shit position that will, guaranteed, cost him dearly (either with Dee's life or the favors she will extract in return, carved out of his guilt) on Anders' behalf. No surprise at all that everything--militarily--falls right into line. Fuck if Anders and Apollo together aren't as scary a guerilla team as Starbuck and Apollo are in space.
2) Helo shooting Athena.
I don't think this even needs to be said, but damn. I didn't find his eventual confrontation with Roslin less compelling as his anger is so twisted up with his obvious psychosis from having just suicided his wife for her. It's so weird to see Helo even acknowledge the fucked up things his wife can do, as he's been trying so hard to make her as good as human to have her fit in with him on Galactica. He screams after she's gone and it's not pain; it's insanity. It's Baltar-worthy. He is married to the monster, and even though she is tame, she will never be any other than what she is. I feel it's a cheat to have him just take her back in her new body. Yes, same person (hell, the Doctor manages!), but think about the clues we use about a person's physical presence, the memories we make of them from touch and taste and smell--senses that are more primal and go a longer way towards assuaging our fears or doubts than memory can. A lot of Athena's inclusion comes from her maintaining as human a profile as possible--the woman, in mind and body and spirit, that Helo survived with and fell in love with has never changed. Now she comes with a body untouched by him, her pregnancy--the dissociation, my God! How disturbing it might have gotten yet.
3) Boomer threatening Hera.
It has always been a self-interested impulse that led Boomer to establish human-Cylon contact in the form of New Caprica. Her disappointment with not being able to re-insert peaceably or play middleman between opposed interests has led her here, and finally she acknowledges it to herself in the form of explosive hatred. She hates not getting to be as human as Athena, hates that she is a corrupted Cylon who cannot find mystical destiny in the hybrid. And finally the DEMAND LOVE movement comes to its natural end, imploding, self-eating, as Caprica breaks Boomer's neck. Caprica, who began her duties by blinking out the life of a child, sacrifices herself to preserve that spark in another baby. Caprica, the infiltrator, stands exposed on Galactica's hanger deck and goes to a cell. They have switched places now, Boomer the baby killer, Caprica the human wannabe. As if Caprica couldn't get any more heartbreaking. I wonder if her Chip!Gaius will help her weasel out of trouble like his Chip!Six drove him nuts.
4) Three apologizing to one of the final five Cylons.
It makes the revelation incredibly pointed. The other four are unimportant to D'Anna which means nothing, but that she knows the one and says "sorry" to it might mean even less even as it appears to be more. D'Anna met everyone on board Galactica, she stepped on toes that aren't any less sore for her being exposed as a Cylon on New Caprica. It's maddening to think that she might have been sincere, humbled for the first time ever (her madness has been surprisingly prideful thus far). It's like seeing Six left behind by both her lovers on a quest more insane than her own. How insane or inane the final five end up being will determine how upsetting it is that her reaction is so penitent after so long a period of crazy headstrongness.
She doesn't know two of them, looks right past them. She half-smiles at the third, as you might at an acquaintance of no real import. The fourth she does a sort of double take, as if she has to really believe that it's really that person in this place (more interesting still than her reaction to the fifth). "Forgive me, I had no idea." Said with wonder, with sadness and apology. To someone wronged, someone scorned, someone brushed off with snark? Anders, Lee, Gaeta, respectively?
5) Baltar in a body bag.
Just. So. Weird. Because I believe Gaius has firmly sold his sanity to make room for his ego and to crowd out his sense of personal responsibility and that this need to be a Cylon is a tragic pipe dream. And if he's dead--he is never coming back. That's very upsetting. In the way that outing Baltar ruined the duplicity he operated under, only much, much worse.
God, Anders and Lee carried him out to the stretcher together. Wow, okay, that was kind of hot, actually. In another life, they were friends. In another life, Lee and Kara were enemies. In this other life, things were better for both those reasons.
This is not my beautiful house...
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no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 02:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 04:24 pm (UTC)To put a bee in your bonnet... (spoiler ahead!!!!)
Date: 2007-01-23 03:01 pm (UTC)If the 13th tribe made the temple, and they knew the nova was coming, why didn't they mae it so a person could survive in the temple complex past the nova's wave?
What point is knowledge if you die soon after attaining it?
OR, maybe they knew whoever they were leaving the trail behind for WOULD survive one inherently. ie: through resurrection? teleportation?
Stretch that out...MAYBE the 13th tribe are the origins of the cylons? Not cylons themselves, but the creators?
Scary thought, no?
Re: To put a bee in your bonnet... (spoiler ahead!!!!)
Date: 2007-01-23 04:17 pm (UTC)Then again, since a human didn't stand there, we don't know if a human would have survived where a Cylon did not.
Re: To put a bee in your bonnet... (spoiler ahead!!!!)
Date: 2007-01-23 04:26 pm (UTC)The other question that brings up is whether Six saw what she did because the device was killing her OR if she saw it because she was dying anyway.
Re: To put a bee in your bonnet... (spoiler ahead!!!!)
Date: 2007-01-23 04:42 pm (UTC)We'll see how they resolve this then conjecture more, I'm certain.
Re: To put a bee in your bonnet... (spoiler ahead!!!!)
Date: 2007-01-24 06:07 pm (UTC)Re: To put a bee in your bonnet... (spoiler ahead!!!!)
Date: 2007-01-24 06:19 pm (UTC)Re: To put a bee in your bonnet... (spoiler ahead!!!!)
Date: 2007-01-24 05:33 am (UTC)However, I doubt either one would really have survived. The roof did cave in, after all.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 03:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-23 04:24 pm (UTC)no subject
no subject
Date: 2007-01-24 05:43 am (UTC)2) But Hera's immediate reaction to Athena shows that the new Athena is *exactly* alike -- more alike to Athena v1.0 than Boomer is.
What I call BS on is the continued way the Cylons use sophistry to get around suicide. It's still killing yourself if you manipulate someone else into doing it!
3) This, to me, goes more to the individuality aspect of it -- Athena is NOT Boomer, and Boomer wishes she were Athena. And is so jealous that she'll have a complete break with her character to... hmm. It is unclear how well this Cylon downloading process works. Clearly the Cylons are a few individuals who we've met as characters, and then a bunch of faceless clones waiting in the meat locker. BSG's inconsistency about Cylon individuality = THEY!
4) Yeah, this was kind of an awesome scene. I wish the show would give us a bit more in the way of hints. But I don't think she was hallucinating.
5) I dunno. I still think Baltar is a Cylon.
As for the reaction-worthy Nameless One: I have three claims. My first suggestion is that--the Fifth Models may well be visually identical to known Cylon models. In which case, Three was reacting to seeing Six in her full glory. Yup, that's right -- Angelface is actually Caprica!
Claim 2: In the event that Claim 1 proves false (it's more just an idea I like), I say it was Starbuck. Yay Crazy God!
Claim 3: I still say Baltar is a Cylon.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-24 03:51 pm (UTC)Hee! Love that. I dunno how I would explain away the rise of individuals over the faceless many, other than to say that, for the most part, even with Baltar walking along Cylon corridors, most Cylons have no interaction with humans--even the human-looking ones.
I think the idea that the final five are really ones we've seen who just happen to be crazy individuals is pretty good, but, other than Caprica and maybe Boomer, there was no real way to say all the individuals are among the Final Five, and it seems like it would be an all-or-none deal. SInce only Caprica and Boomer were specifically playing long-game strategies, and were the only ones (other than D'Anna herself) inserted specifically, they're the only ones with connections to the larger hive mind directives. Interesting theory.
I refuse to let awesome assholes of humanity be Cylons so I don't want Starbuck or Baltar to be Cylons. It destroys their human culpability to say they are fraked up machines because, no matter what we've seen, we still, at heart, understand that the Cylons are crazy okay with murdering and not giving a shit about who they step on. That's the way they were built. Humans can be raised that way by individuals, and you get your Baltars or your Karas, but the drama from them comes from the fact that they are self-aware of their flaws and do regret them.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-24 04:51 pm (UTC)I don't think it destroys their humanity at all. I think it restores humanity to the Cylons -- who, after all, are much like Baltar and Starbuck in being crazy okay with murdering everyone.
I don't think that Cylons are incapable of being aware of their flaws and regretting them. They're clearly capable of VAST character transformations (Boomer, Three); and presumably there's some kind of mental process going on there... and we know they have emotions, so... it looks like a duck, y'know?
I will come back to another of my main themes, which is this: the show is only interesting if the Cylons are arguably human.
Any time they become RAWR CRAZY SPACE TOASTERS KILLIN US ZOMG the show becomes lame. The plot options become when do Dee and Starbuck and Anders have a threesome, after which she kills her husband. Both of them. Oh yeah, and that stupid Fight Club thing.
But if it's just a space race with an implacable, super-powerful, inhuman enemy, then... well... the robots are going to win, and who cares?
no subject
Date: 2007-01-24 05:09 pm (UTC)What I find more interesting is the two meeting in the center--humans and Cylons alike. So, Starbuck and Baltar come from this humanity, which is sooooo great that Cylons must have some of it, and to find any common ground, they meet on the playing fields of the demonic and the divine (murder and the creation of life, respectively). If really either of them were already on one side and accomplished the mission of being fraked up humans as Cylons, there's no climax. It's already been done--poorly, too, if Kara and Baltar are any indication. I like better to think that the screwed up people are coming to understandings with the Cylon and the--by their own understanding of morality and life and insanity--relatively normal Cylon are finding insanity and fear to be fun things that make life more interesting to be way more interesting.
I didn't mean that the Cylon were crazy robots and totally lacking personalities, just that they hadn't quite gotten the idea of individuality and how that can affect you, how you can be proud of what you do for how you--you specifically--did it, instead of going "it's what's good for me as I am a Cylon and it is it good for the Cylon." I don't think they were not arguably human, just undeveloped--like children, they needed to learn that there are consequences to their actions and being told it was okay doesn't make it so if it feels wrong. That's where you get Boomer and Caprica and Athena and D'Anna. I like watching the evolve to that point. So, yeah, they're underdevloped, but in the way kids are and that's fine.
And, dude, totally need to through Kara, Dee, and Sam into a room together naked and set a quota of about fifty billion orgasms each and leave the room on a timer to let them out when mission: accomplished. However, this will leave Lee on the outside and he will pout and something stupid like "Black Market" will happen. On the other hand, the idea that Lee is emotionally unavailable despite his desperation to be loved is one of the few things that that episode had going for it (they just ruined it by having it be presented in a very told-not-showed way and as emo as possible). He wants to be loved, but he's totally unhappy with being loved because it never feels like enough. He needs bars and pins and kills and ranks to measure him until he can say, "Truly, I am a God of Love," and be happy. This is, of course, all daddy's fault, whinewhinewhine.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-24 05:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-24 04:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-24 05:12 pm (UTC)But really, I would have spaced him, guilty conscience or no, because I would have been totally not caring about whatever trauma he went through for thinking he lost his baby. "Dude, bad decision, I am sorry, I thought it was for the best. BUT GET THE FRAK OVER IT."
no subject
Date: 2007-01-24 06:17 pm (UTC)I don't think they're just meatbags. I think that fundamentally the idea behind "models" is that they start the same place--probably beginning with one personality. But their life experiences change them and make them different from the others, branching out into different personalities, different individuals. i.e. Boomer is different because she was an officer, she was on Galactica, she had that relationship with the Chief, etc. She did all of these things none of her copies did, led a different life, and is different because of it. Athena, too, is different because she was on the planet with Helo--entirely different life experience that made her go on a different path and become a different person. So when Boomer died, she was copied x number of times and each of those models had different experiences. When most of them are on the baseship they all tend to have the same experience and be mostly indistinguishable, but just like people they change depending on their personal experience.