(no subject)

[trinityvixen]

viridian informs me that some of the crazy-ass shit being written up in journals yesterday was for some zombie-apocalypse blogging. Well, I missed it and good, being crazy busy at work and planning to go to Best Buy with moonlightalice and wellgull. But y'all should be ashamed of yourselves--you're crying wolf and now nobody will believe me when I say the zombie apocalypse is coming. Fine. More not-getting-my-brains-eaten for me.

*

Speaking of Best Buy, all I need is the second season of The Simpsons and then I have the eight sets that I really want (otherwise known as "as much of the show that existed until I stopped caring, which is exactly when the X-Files episode aired, which is the best thing that ever happened and nothing could top it so I don't need anything else"). I also have all of Family Guy that's available now (which was more of a "Well, I got one set of the DVDs cheap before, why not just collect all of them?"), but I successfully resisted buying Prison Break. I just kept telling myself I didn't need it, I didn't need it, I didn't need it.

moonlightalice, more accurately, kicked my ass out of the pit of temptation by saying, "You don't even like the show." She's not wrong. I just like it for the eye candy and the crack-tacularity of its ridiculous, ridiculous plots. Besides, if I'm not going to buy all of a show (or at least a substantial subset, like with The Simpsons and Farscape), there's no point in just buying the one season (something tells me that Prison Break is never going to be one of those OMG MUST HAVE IT shows). Yes. So, even if I go to another Best Buy for that last, elusive boxset of season two of The Simpsons, I swear I am not buying Prison Break.

I better make sure moonlightalicecomes with, though. Just to be sure.

*

Yay for folk coming over to watch Night Watch. Wow, does that movie make a lot more sense when you see it twice. Of course, I'm probably just an idiot since everyone seemed to have guessed the plot developments about an hour before they happened. Oh well. I'm still convinced that it's stunning--visually--and I can't wait for more of the same in Day Watch, an outing to which should be planned some time in the next week, I hope.

I forgot, though, how really very much I loved Anton in this movie. He's like the biggest fuck-up of all time, and everyone seems to know that and sort of plan around it, but his utter inability to do anything right trumps everyone else. It's hilarious and so, so sad that I want to hug him and pet his greasy hair and be like, "Dude, karma. You're bound to do something good...eventually."

According to the commentary by, I think, the writer of the novel, Geser, the commander of the Light Others, probably knew from when Anton almost got the witch to abort his wife's baby that the Light Others were doomed. I dunno how he knew that Anton's kid would be The One (whoa), or how he knew that Yegor would choose the Dark Others, but that makes the movie that much more sad because Geser's attempts to protect Anton from Zavulon and from his own mistakes seem all the more generous and poignant (otherwise, Geser seemed stand-offish, judgmental--not that Anton didn't deserve that--and weak). It also gives a bit of hope to the dreary, dreary ending whereby if Geser could know at once what it took Zavulon several hundred tries on his PS3 simulator of the apocalyptic battle (and if that were really a title, I might reconsider buying a PS3) to learn, then maybe the Light forces aren't doomed-doomed-doomed.

Of course, this being a Russian film, a happy ending is by no means assured. I dunno how much more the films can keep kicking Anton in the nuts, but probably a lot. And he's not the sort of hero that we'd get real satisfaction out of him winning the thing. He's not smart enough, not composed enough, not right enough with his own choices in his head, not stable enough with his ability that he'll ever be able to turn anything around on it. Then again, having your own kid specifically turn against you and, by proxy, turn to evil is probably a shot in the testicles that might get him out of his slump.

I actually didn't mind the kid so much in this. He and the actor playing Anton had some fierce chemistry going, with the kid hero-worshipping this deadbeat loser (without knowing exactly how deadbeat he was) and Anton grieving for the very presence of the thing that he thinks ruined his life and might have led him to make the wrong choice of sides (he, too, having no idea how true that is). It's really heartbreaking. And Yegor seems like a right brat to turn on Anton--probably because the film does such a good job of making Anton so pitiable you feel bad when anyone picks on him--but at the same time? To a kid? That's logic. Anton protected him from the vampire, so Anton was good. Suddenly, Anton turns out to be a killer, too, and Zavulon and Alice protect him. They're good, and Anton's worse than the vampire. Yegor's too young to see the crazy Emperor Palpatine mojo that the Dark Other general's working on his ass, and he's just been betrayed by one savior. He's not ready for it to happen twice, so he's not going to process that Zavulon might have another agenda other than "protecting" him.

And, as moonlightalice said, any kid would pick the dark guys at twelve. Those are angsty years, I tell you what. Also? The Dark Others are pop stars and drive expensive cars; the light others wear surplus army jackets and work for the electric company. Not hard to do the math on that.

Comments

[slackwench.livejournal.com]

It occurs to me that Prison Break would be a good reality TV show. Put 50 people in a real prison where the guards are armed with airsoft (or something) and see if they can escape. I guell you'd have to instruct the guards to act normally so they're not actively watching out for people more than normal. I'm gonna stop now because this is turning into something good for badideas.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

See, if you can't give the "convicts" the legitimate element of surprise, there's no hope. And Prison Break played so fast and loose with rules and regulations that even I, who know nothing about the penal system (and want not to know, thanks), was like, "They did what?" It doesn't have to be GITMO for guards to actually pay attention to a bunch of cons--that's their job for chrissakes...

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

This sounds like the Stanford prison experiment.

[negativeq.livejournal.com]

Another thing (and this is emphasized even more in the book) is that Light Others are barely permitted to DO a damn thing. Both Anton and Svetlana get frustrated at how they are yolked all the friggin time. In the meantime, Dark Ones find all the loopholes in order to live the quality of life they desire. Dark and Light also have identical powers, the major differences come from how they power up (it involves draining human emotion, but what kind) and their attitude towards magic usage.

And Dark Ones DON'T lie. Seemingly ever. They speak the truth, and will fuck you over with the truth, but at least they are straight up. They are even honest about how weaker members are expendable. It's not pleasant, but Yegor can respect that.

In the meantime the Light Others lie to each other all the time and manipulate just as much, if not more. And they don't seem very successful, as individuals, at life.

Yegor had no reason at all to be inclined to Light.

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

Another thing (and this is emphasized even more in the book) is that Light Others are barely permitted to DO a damn thing.

Having not read the book, this didn't really come across for me in the film (see below). Given how impotent the one Day Watch member was and the many repeated references to Light Others issuing licenses to Dark Others, not the other way around, it seemed like the Light Others had all the power. And as the ones who have to keep the peace, they of course end up abusing it.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I wonder how much of that impotence was a ruse, though. Also, the Dark Others have so many material delights to enjoy, I don't doubt that some of them wouldn't give a rat's ass if the truce never was broken and if there was never a "winner." Material comfort will do that to a person. People with no ambition--like the male lackey in the Adidas getup, or Anton's neighbor--just want to live. Zavulon and Dark Others like him have more of an interest in furthering the cause because power is never enough on its own unless it leads to more, absolute power.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

In the meantime the Light Others lie to each other all the time and manipulate just as much, if not more. And they don't seem very successful, as individuals, at life.

Yeah, that really struck me as not as coming across as well as it needed to for Yegor's condemning Anton for being a liar. It's true that Anton lied to him, but the spirit of the lie is less evil than the truth the Dark Others give him. Plus, the Dark Other witch who was going to abort Yegor for Anton totally lied to his face about the kid's paternity, which dilutes the Dark Others-not-being-liars thing. I, personally, LOVE when evil tells you the truth and lets the truth be worse than tricking you with a lie (been reading Lucifer, so, naturally, that's come up a lot).

And yeah, none of the Light Others are snapping successes. Not all the Dark Others are, either, as Anton's neighbor proved, but there are NO hugely rich, well-off Light Others versus only the white-trash versions of Dark Others being the ones to be poor (whereas the ambitious, powerful Dark Others are all hugely successful). It's pretty tempting.

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

A couple thoughts on Night Watch:

-I'm not sure you can really say Gesser did a good thing for Anton by trying to get him protection from Zavulon. Think about it. In the first simulation, Anton stabs Zavulon in the forehead and wins. In order for Zavulon to win, he has to bring Yegor in at that exact moment. That's what the protection charm was for. As far as we know, it doesn't protect anything. It's a McGuffin to get Yegor to join in Anton's battle against Zavulon, that's all. So Gesser is either playing both sides or just plain stupid not to see that.

-If the best hope the Light Others have is Anton, they're fucked anyway. The fact that they'd even keep someone like Anton around shows how ambiguous their morality is. What does Anton do? He drinks blood so he can tap into what drives the Dark Others and uses that to track them down. He's much more in touch with the Darkness than the Light anyway.

-Yegor was not wrong. The Light Others are worse in a lot of ways. It's pretty clear from the film that they: a) use humans as bait, b) issue licenses to Dark Others to kill and feed off of humans, c) are willing to kill innocents to accomplish their goals.

I think the whole thing is a metaphor for Cold War Russia and the fall of the Soviet Union. You have the supposedly good people who are running a police state against an evil that is essentially impotent against them (see how frightened "Bear" and Tiger Cub were of the Day Watch guard); they've lost their morality in the pursuit of stability, regardless of their original goals; and they're eventually toppled by the reality of human emotions. Especially with the ending (yes, I know, it's the start of the series), where the supposedly good guys have lost, but everyone just sort of shrugs and goes on. The Light Others kind of are the Communist party here, no?

Okay, point-by-point here...

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

1) Geser's trying to protect Anton was to keep him from getting into a fight (which he'd assuredly lose) was an attempt to prevent exactly what happened--Yegor making his choice on the evidence of actions made at the heat of the moment. If Anton had kept the charm on, Zavulon could have done nothing to him, and he could have taken Yegor to safety. Presumably, since Alice was keeping an eye on the vampire on Zavulon's behalf, Zavulon gave the charm freely (making it appear with his behavior that he did not, thus trying to strangle Anton with it) and got Alice to get the vampire to insist he take it off (or, who knows? Maybe the vampire could feel the charm would nullify her powers--if it could do so to Zavulon, it could certainly do so to her). Either way, Geser tried one thing, Zavulon outflanked him, and he got Yegor anyway.

The way I see it, Geser is like Oedipus--trying not to let a thing happen makes it happen. Zavulon, with his more methodical exploration of the future (versus whatever vague sense Geser had about it), was prepared for any possibility--Geser, only the outcome. He did try though, which is why I thought he came off as more sympathetic for knowing that it was doomed to failure anyway.

2) Anton's ability as a seer is seen as something of a problem from the beginning ("Just what we need--another asshole who can see the future," says Simeon), so I don't think that he's their best hope. He's just necessary in some situations. The blood drinking thing is definitely encouraged from above (I think it was even Geser on the phone to him telling him to track the vampire), and it probably was used to enhance his supernatural sensibilities (they identify him as a seer when he can see into the gloom and see the Others working against the witch). It's not like he likes it. I think he understands why some people DO like it (hence why he and his neighbor never come to blows despite good reason to). They send him to Svetlana probably because he identified the curse on her and would be best able to see it lifted (and therefore know if the world was ending). It was opportunity and best-man-for-the-job mostly in the movie, but I doubt anyone thinks Anton's the best hope for anything other than the occasional vampire-hunt.

His being so dark comes as a result of his not-choice to be a Light Other. It was a revulsion for murdering an unborn child that made him abhor the Dark Other. When it turned out he was an Other, too, it left him on the side of Light by default. I don't think Anton really even is a Light Other for any other reason--hence why he's so not into the gig.

3) I agree that the Light Others seem to be doing shady business, but I am not sure how much of what they do is FAIRLY characterized as entrapment. Anton DID go to the witch and agreed with her to kill the baby, even to taking the sin upon himself. That was his choice. Unless they wanted to REALLY abuse their power and arrest the witch for being WILLING to do the thing (not for TRYING) to do it, what else could they do but interrupt? Honestly, the fact that they don't prosecute the thought-crime makes them a little better than Communists, doesn't it?

In fact, I don't get the "bait" thing at all except for the vampires. In Anton's case, I don't think the witch had a leg to stand on calling foul. In the vampires' case, I think they could have freed Yegor and then told the vampires off, given them a warning or whatever, and then gotten serious if they didn't back off. So that's fair. But I'm not sure how else you'd keep an eye on the bad business that seem intrinsic to the Dark side in general.

Did like your historical analysis. Undoubtedly, there's a lot of that going on in the background that we're just not aware of being a non-Russian audience. I'd be interested to see, what with all the problems in Russia today, if the Light Others--being the Communists in your analysis--end up being redeemed or held up in any way. I wonder...

Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[negativeq.livejournal.com]

There are some MAJOR plot differences about Yegor in the book, and I will mum about those.

The crime the Dark witch committed was LYING - that is why she got arrested. The light didn't care that she was casting a malicious spell, what mattered to them was the lack of honest disclosure.

The Light did not care that Yegor, an innocent child, was randomly selected as vampire food. The crime was hunting without permit. This especially disgusts Yegor for obvious reasons.

Also, the Dark can inflict permits and crap on the Light too. In fact that is one of the reasons why the Light can do so little actual good. This is something that frustrates Svetlana greatly - she is extremely powerful, and she is not even allowed to heal the sick. She can't even jump in and rescue someone about to get killed.

And yes, in the book, EVERYONE wonders how the hell did Anton wind up on the side of Light, including himself. And you are correct that he isn't valued for much. However, that works to his advantage, since no one thinks he will amount to much, no one pays much heed to him, so he can go fuck things up.

Re: Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[negativeq.livejournal.com]

More on Anton -

The other seers have looked into his future and declared he will have no major accomplishments during his lifetime. Even Gesar, who has not written him off as a total loser, admits that. What is interesting though, is even if he himself is not "Great", he is tied tightly to the destinies of Yegor and Svetlana. Hell, he is directly responsible for their indoctrinations in the first place! He is also credited for roping in another character of significance. He's the one who solves the dirty mysteries and seems to be the only one who seeks out justice. He gets along fairly well with the Day watch, and has made good use of that. Yet none of this is viewed as important.

Re: Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

See, that interests me more than his being a hero. Because it's got a sort of brutal realism to it--the protagonist isn't the Marty Stu, he's just a guy. He's clearly influential, but he, himself, is just himself--as normal as you get with the Others. He's not special, he doesn't glom onto the special ones, and he's sort of depressed about his lack of standing but at the same time? I think he's grateful not to have more responsibility (since he wouldn't know what to do with it).

Anton's "normality" (lack of exceptional ability for his world) is what makes him so dear. Because although he gets to operate in a world of fantastical powers and has himself an ability beyond normal mortals, he's just a guy, and that's someone that people who don't get to play in fantastical worlds, who have to live in reality, REALLY appreciate.

Re: Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

The crime the Dark witch committed was LYING - that is why she got arrested. The light didn't care that she was casting a malicious spell, what mattered to them was the lack of honest disclosure.

The Light did not care that Yegor, an innocent child, was randomly selected as vampire food. The crime was hunting without permit. This especially disgusts Yegor for obvious reasons.

Okay, so why is that entrapment? Were they supposed to sit over the witch's shoulder and make sure she was telling the truth to all her customers? Seems to me that they caught her committing a crime, so I still don't know where she got off crying foul. The same would be true for the vampires--they know that they're not supposed to do what they're doing, and they did it anyway. The Light Others didn't shove Yegor in front of them or anything.

And yes, in the book, EVERYONE wonders how the hell did Anton wind up on the side of Light, including himself.

I want to make an X joke, but Anton's not even that lucky. At least Kamui was like, "I actually want some people to live." Anton seemed to be playing the part of Fuuma more than Kamui--he didn't really choose, he got defaulted.

Re: Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[wellgull.livejournal.com]

he didn't really choose, he got defaulted.

See, this is the problem with the "people must choose!" argument -- there are already so many influences on people that they really can't make an uninfluenced choice.

Re: Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Uninfluenced, no, but they still get to choose. Yegor chose. Anton had a moment where he couldn't stomach so much evil up in his face all at once, panicked, and revolted. That doesn't mean he was fundamentally opposed to the Dark Others or spiritually aligned with the Light Others. He couldn't do something once, and that was the point at which he was supposed to choose. He didn't know that.

I'm surprised there isn't more attrition going on between sides as people lose stomach for evil or tolerance for good.

Re: Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[wellgull.livejournal.com]

Mmm... but Yegor chose in a moment of heavy emotional duress too.

It's kind of disheartening how immutable choices are in the view of this movie.

Re: Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

It's kind of disheartening how immutable choices are in the view of this movie.

I think that the stark, irrefutable, unchangeable decision is all that keeps both sides from fighting wars internally to stop loss their warriors. Because the two sides would be constantly bleeding members to one another--you'd probably have Anton become a Dark Other and the vampire chick would (if she had to stay as she was) become a Light Other (if it were possible for a vampire to be Light).

I need to listen to the commentary on this movie again to see if, like I seem to remember, Bear really did switch sides. 'Cause the western society-raised person I am wants to believe the movie trilogy will end with Yegor being able to do the same, or, at least, with him choosing neither and the truce being formed anew, more amicably, but I don't trust that this will happen.

Re: Trying to keep this book spoiler free

[negativeq.livejournal.com]

Well, as for as anyone knows in the book, you can't change your faction - it has to do with how you are changed (physically changed) by the gloom. In fact Others don't consider themselves human after a certain point. There is a rumor that Bear switched, but he won't confirm or deny it.

DON'T READ NEXT LINE UNLESS YOU WANT BOOK SPOILER












































Yegor, at the end of the book, is STILL neutral, although he distinctively leans towards Dark. Everyone is surprised at how he is able
to avoid committing for so long.

The third novel is called Dusk watch. I have not read it yet, but I have theories as to what the title signifies.

[wellgull.livejournal.com]

- Yeah, Gesser probably did screw up there. But it's exactly the kind of mistake you'd expect the Light General to make -- caring too much for his men, wanting too much to protect them, etc.

- If the best hope the Light Others have is Anton, they're fucked anyway.
...yeah. But I don't think the movie set him up as the "best hope," more as the only guy they could spare. Plus, y'know, his son and all. But it's kind of a cheap shot that the movie had him screw the whole thing up before it even started. I don't find Yegor's motivation for being angry with Anton all that convincing really -- his argument boils down to "Oh wait, so this guy who saved my life at risk to his own, twice, in front of me, once tried to have me aborted when I was a fetus, but then decided it wasn't a good idea after all so he stopped. It is so manifestly obvious that Anton is going for Zavulon with the screwdriver that I do not believe for a second that Yegor would think he was being attacked, unless Anton has the intelligence of a ground chipmunk, and they are not smart.
So basically, I call shenanigans on Yegor choosing the Dark Others.

- The Light Others are worse in a lot of ways.
I thought this too, but then I thought about it a bit more -- seriously, the Dark Others would never sign some kind of truce that let the Light Others heal people arbitrarily or didn't let the Dark Others drink blood occasionally. Any truce would necessarily involve a moral compromise of some sort. So unless we want to say that the only right thing is for the Light Others to fight until everyone is dead, we're being too absolutist to complain that the Light side had to make some compromises. That's a morality based on too simplistic a good/evil dichotomy, which wouldn't really be supported in the movie or in life.
On that note, the movie tells us that the Light Others are trying to protect humanity and help them, and that they feed off of happy emotions. I don't remember it saying that they were necessarily more moral on some external scale, just that they try to heal people and feed off of happiness rather than hurting people and feeding off of fear (which we consequently judge as moral).
Of course, in the terms of the original curse, the Dark Others automatically win. The Virgin of Babylon would destroy anybody who saw her, but especially those she loved. So love really can't conquer destruction under those terms...

ahem

[wellgull.livejournal.com]

so he stopped."

and

unless Yegor has the intelligence of a ground chipmunk

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

I still call "meh" on the movie. I think that stylistically it's really innovative and cool, but the plot just totally didn't work for me. The character development was superficial and stupid, the internal logic contradicted itself, and the good vs. evil thing was explored in only the most perfunctory way.

[arcane-the-sage.livejournal.com]

*nods in complete agreement*