La-la-la, la-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la-la...

[trinityvixen]

So I bought The Nightmare Before Christmas: Oogie's Revenge last weekend and have tried it out to general satisfaction. This is not the most complicated game by any means, but that's not a problem for the girl who's a huge fan of Dynasty Warriors and won't play the new Gauntlet Legends game because it requires you to do stuff that isn't just attack-attack-attack-heavy attack-attack-attack-attack-potion-attack.

Anyway, it's cute enough, and I have no problem listening to the midi of "This is Halloween" (subject line reflects that) forever, since I did that in Kingdom Hearts with no problem (and if you can survive the midi of "Under the Sea" from the first game, you can survive anything; ditto "Finny Fun" in the sequel). Even the remade versions of the songs from the movie, with new lyrics to reflect gameplay don't bother me.

What bothered me? I got an icon, which was from the door in the forest to Halloween Town. When I read information about the icon, it informed me that there were other icons to other doors, including the land of St. Partrick's Day, Valentine's, Easter, Christmas, and Independence Day.

That's right: THERE IS AN ENTIRE PATRIOTS TOWN WHERE THEY CELEBRATE HOW WONDERFUL AMERICA IS ALL THE TIME.

I turned to feiran in horror, asking her to just imagine it. She had a brilliant observation about it that demonstrated that I had not even plumbed the depths of misery that is Patriots' Town--feiran: I bet it's run by Republicans.

THE HORROR!

Oh, wait, that's kinda like the US today. THE HORROR!

Comments

[arcane-the-sage.livejournal.com]

Actually it could be run by liberal republicans. Seriously, think about it. Since The Nightmare Before Christmas goes off the idealistic viewpoint of said holidays, then Independence Day town would be all bbqs, fireworks, and people getting lucky on the hillsides with fireworks going off over head. Now a town who's population is getting laid that often isn't going to be all that aggressive. Would you be if you're stuffed and sexually satisfied every day of the year?

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I see you are unfamiliar with an episode of The Simpsons called Itchy and Scratchy Land (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itchy_and_scratchy_land).

Marge and Homer go to Parents Island or wherever and they party in a room where it's New Year's Eve countdown time like every half hour.

Marge: It must be wonderful to ring in the new year over and over and over.
Waiter: Please, kill me.

[arcane-the-sage.livejournal.com]

I see you've forgotten how 99% of all those living in a holiday land seem hardwired to enjoy a lifestyle like that. Just look what halloween land did to the christmas idea.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I've not forgotten. What I'm saying is that going to Patriots Town would be a nightmare. If you were a creature of Patriots Town, you'd probably ::shiver:: like it. Gross.

But still, I think even a creature made to be in a certain village can be freaked out by it--I mean, people are afraid of Oogie Boogie and of Jack...

[shell524.livejournal.com]

If America were what it's supposed to be it would be good reason to celebrate how wonderful America is.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

See my comment about "Itchy and Scratchy Land" up above.

I guess it's my general abhorrence of the idea of forced happiness and patriotism all the goddamned time. That's just not healthy. At least with Halloween Town, you're being scared but you're also having fun. So, it's balanced out. The elves in Christmas Town work and are happy, but they're not being told to be happy.

One day a year to go "Hey, we've got it pretty good! Thanks, Founders!" is fine. 365 days of "USA! USA! USA!" would drive me bonkers. It's like being stuck in the "United States" section of EPCOT center. Which I was able to stand for about one hour, and only then because leaving the America-love-in animatronics show would have caused trouble.

[shell524.livejournal.com]

Maybe they're quietly patriotic and celebrate how wonderful America is all the time by upholding real American values of equality and fairness?

....

Bah. Who am I kidding?

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

God, for a second there, you really scared me.

Even if it were possible to live in that eden, The Nightmare Before Christmas set it up so that that wouldn't be the case. It would literally be Fourth of July planning all year in anticipation of the big event, just as it was in Halloween Town and Christmas Town.

THE TERROR.

[bigscary.livejournal.com]

Bullshit. Republicans don't love America. They love themselves, and facism, and monarchy. They HATE America, because it stands for Freedom, and they have, ever since they sold their souls to the racists and the theocrats and the kleptocrats, stood against Freedom, wherever it may be, here or abroad.

[shell524.livejournal.com]

I think the point was that the over-the-top "patriotic" theme would be propogated by such as a show, not necessarily as a real sentiment.

No comment on the rest of your statement, because arguments about political parties hating freedom can be made on either side.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I think the point was that the over-the-top "patriotic" theme would be propogated by such as a show, not necessarily as a real sentiment.

::taps side of nose:: You got it.

[edgehopper.livejournal.com]

Worthy of the Daily Kos. Please remember that some of your friends are Republicans.

[shell524.livejournal.com]

And they are soulless vampires who subsist on the blood of the poor. Don't you know anything? *grin*

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

And Democrats are a bunch of spineless puff balls. Puff balls are cute, at least. Then again, vampires are sexy. And gay, too, but that's the fault of the 60s and 70s.

[shell524.livejournal.com]

That should be read with a heavy dose of sarcasm, btw.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

::shrugs::

He's entitled to phrase his opinion any way he wants, and it's his problem then if he offends. I don't approve of offending people unless they deserve it, nor am I a fan of blanket statements.

Still, I can understand his frustration. The current theocratical neo-con government, under the aegis of the Republican party, perpetrates enough offensive acts to anyone not rich, white, and male to be worthy of frustration. So, while all Republicans are not the guilty party, they're going to catch some flak for what they've allowed their party to become. Inaction condones this behavior. If you're one of the few acting within to turn the focus, well done. Man's still got a point about the rest of them.

[edgehopper.livejournal.com]

It's a very interesting theocracy we have. Why, just this week someone is being prosecuted for blasphemy in New York City! The blasphemy was against Islam, though, and the charge was brought by a Democratic (or at least, whatever you call Bloomberg these days) administration.

And just yesterday, the House deleted records to change a vote result when the majority party lost a vote on a motion! The first stages of fascism. Oh, wait, the majority party was the Democrats.

The Republicans have an incredible tendency to screw up. On the other hand, the Democrats seem to think I'm evil for being rich, white, and male (which is odd, since all of their presidential candidates are at least 2 of 3 on those qualities, and Edwards is all 3). So, I'll continue to identify as Republican, while pushing the party to shift in a Libertarian direction.

So, I take umbrage when I'm told that as a Republican, I've "sold [my soul] to the racists and the theocrats and the kleptocrats, stood against Freedom, wherever it may be, here or abroad."

Because I stand for treating people equally regardless of the color of their skin, and believe that people everywhere are capable of running a non-corrupt democracy, I'm a racist?

Because I'm more worried about giving Islamists a heckler's veto than the government giving some money to charities that happen to be run by religious groups, I've joined with the theocrats?

Because I believe that I've earned the money that I've spent 19 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to be educated enough to earn, and then (will be working) 80-100 hours a week to make it, and that the government shouldn't steal half of it and give it to bums who refuse to work a regular job or to idiots who refused to plan for their retirement, I've sided with the kleptocrats?

Because I'm more worried about religious fanatics who want to nuke New York City than that a computer somewhere might hear my phone calls, I stand against Freedom at home?

Because I believe that the people of the Middle East should be free of tyrannical, religious governments, I stand against Freedom abroad?

If someone made the same blanket statement about any other aggregate group of people, it would be called hate speech, and rightly so. And I'm calling him on it.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

If you want go point for point as to the accusations, so be it. I was referring to the general trend of both classical, modern, and neo-conservative ambitions of the Republican Party, and how they've tended to serve the rich and the white and the male. But let us throw stats and references at each other even as we know the other will not a) agree that that's even ever true, or b) read a given situation the same way.

You want fascism? How about that law that was proposed in Ohio giving men veto rights over abortions in women they got pregnant? Sure, hasn't a chance in hell to pass, but the idea is that their "softer" bans will. Slow build up to the removal of autonomy over just womens' bodies? Fascist and sexist. A twofer!

How about hiring people who are incompetent or whose personal beliefs make it impossible for them to actually do their jobs? Like the fellow with no science background whatsoever who rewrote climate reports to mitigate news from actual scientists on global warming problems? Or refusing to even consider candidates for major public health jobs who didn't support this particular president and his conservative Christian values? That's freedom, is it? The freedom to smother information and stack the deck? Not fascism at all? Just checking.

I should just bulletinize this. It's freedom to...
...start a civil war in another country because we said they were terrorists?
...to impose a system of government we prefer (and that prefers us) on said country?
...to ignore information that disagrees with our imperialism and fabricate information that does?
...to create a quasi-Big Brother state by listening to all citizens' phone calls?
...to rearrange public welfare programs in such a way that the users are confused and screwed out of a lot more money for less service?
...to say our country is racism-free when it really, really isn't and we are almost daily reminded of this fact?
...to deny that people in same-sex relationships are full citizens entitled to all the same rights and privileges as those in hetero-sex relationships?

If someone made the same blanket statement about any other aggregate group of people, it would be called hate speech, and rightly so. And I'm calling him on it.
You're calling what he says hate speech as if I can't understand that. I do understand it. He literally said, "I hate Republicans" and said what he hated about them and how repugnant they are.

What I said was, "Fine, then that's what it is. Doesn't change the fact that, strong language aside, I can sympathize with his feelings." I can sympathize; I just choose to be more careful not to paint with as broad a brush or to make statements in a moment of anger about people. He hates Republicans. I hate the Republican Party. I don't hate you or any Republican blanketedly. Hell, many Republicans are as repulsed by the conservative fundamentalist pandering (now being shown for the voter-grabbing stunt it is with some candidates) as I am. I dislike your party's policies; I dislike their tactics; I dislike the people they've put into office; I dislike their abuses of power; and I dislike the direction that they want to take the country in. Perhaps that is what bigscary meant, too, when he said "Republicans" the people instead of "Republican" the party. But I won't put words in his mouth.

[edgehopper.livejournal.com]

Technically, most of what you're complaining about with Bush appointments is cronyism rather than fascism. There's a huge difference. I'm opposed to it, but Mussolini's government did not have, as its fundamental feature, the appointment of incompetent politicos to moderately important government positions. The problem with Nazi Germany was not that Goebbels was an incompetent who was appointed because Hitler liked him. When you're not allowed to post rants like this anymore, then I'll start worrying about creeping fascism. But that's not going to happen.

And you know I agree with you on this one:

...to deny that people in same-sex relationships are full citizens entitled to all the same rights and privileges as those in hetero-sex relationships?

And when either party starts openly supporting gay marriage, I'll cheer.

The point is, it's this kind of hate speech that, if not commented on and shamed, leads to problems. When an attitude of hating Jews becomes acceptable in society, it's the first step in the road to genocide. When an attitude of hating Republicans or Democrats becomes acceptable in polite, educated society, it's the first step on the road to civil wars and coups. As a patriotic American, I don't want that to happen. Save the hate speech for those who actually want us dead, or better yet, just don't use it at all.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Technically, most of what you're complaining about with Bush appointments is cronyism rather than fascism.

Perhaps, but the cronyism whilst in power used to cement and retain power is creeping towards fascistic. Things like trying to remove methods of protest--like the fillibuster--from within government? That stinks of preventing the minority from ever having a say. These things really scare me. The fact that the vice president declares himself to be in whatever branch of government gives him freedom from scrutiny on whatever issue is brought to his door at the time smacks of his being above the laws the rest of us would be subject to. These things are not fascism yet, but they're paving stones to it.

The point is, it's this kind of hate speech that, if not commented on and shamed, leads to problems.
::shrugs again:: So, you've shamed him, I haven't denied that you have a point in shaming him, so that's it, is it?

Honestly, I think that, again, not trying to put words in his mouth, bigscary did not mean to use hate speech. I think it was semantical error on his part and he really did mean, as I do, to phrase his immense dislike as nothing personal but strictly political.

But as for hating on Republicans and Democrats the group leading to civil war, I think you're exaggerating well into the realms of hyperbole there. People have actively hated on both groups for as long as they've been around, and the country is still here. When someone in Congress starts thrashing another rep with a cane, then I will be worried.