I promise, I'm being somewhat facetious about that second part

[trinityvixen]

And the monkey-face picture is back. Would you knock it off, NYT?

I found out that the lieutenant governor is both legally blind and African-American. His stepping up would be historic. And for that completely shallow reason (and the fact that he seems to be liberal enough of mind for my liking), I now have an interest in seeing Spitzer resign. Not 'cause of law or anything (and certainly not for being a client of a prostitute), that would be silly.

Comments

[kent-allard-jr.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I worked for Paterson and liked him well enough, even if he imposed a dress code on us. (Not that he could tell, of course.)

I see the NY Republicans are calling to impeach the Money for Luv Guv. What is it with these guys? A chief executive's dick flies up and they leap out of their seats with impeachment articles.

Ah, and I just realized that if Joe Bruno becomes Lt. Governor, that means (a) there has to be a special election for his seat, but (b) he gets to break ties. Assuming the GOP keeps it the Dems would need 2 seats, not 1, to win the majority. Thanks Spitz!

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you could be mad that Bruno would move up, but whose fault is that in the first place? Rar, stupid Spitzer. He's really done his utmost to screw over the party.

[shell524.livejournal.com]

Ok, so, I'm so not a New Yorker, and ordinarily care nothing about local politics because of that fact, BUT seriously... Arguments about whether prostitution should be legal and not caring about politicians fucking around aside, the man broke the law after spending an enormous amount of energy prosecuting people through that specific law. Sorry, but he should resign for hypocrisy if nothing else. He got caught. Too bad, so sad.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

God, I read the Pandagon thread on this and it was COMPLETELY given over to prostitution: Y/N? I mean, there's much better stuff here to consider--the hypocrisy angle, the fate of the state legislature, the fact that there are hints that someone went fishing to expose a democratic candidate (not that it matters if they did since he really did do something).

The hypocrisy bothers me, but firing him over it? Then we'd have to fire all the guys who do this shit. And no one would be left in government. Which, hey, maybe that would fix some problems. But I won't concede that one guy should step down if it's SOLELY about visiting a prostitute if ALL men who have done who occupy positions of authority don't do likewise. Because if they don't, then all the clamor about moral betrayal et al. mean nothing and this really just is "We don't like this guy for his strengths, so the public should oust him for his weaknesses."

[shell524.livejournal.com]

The unfortunate truth is that the only people punished for their moral shortcomings are those who are caught. It is, for better or worse, not about the "clamor about moral betrayal" at all, but about being the idiot who got caught. Even more so because the idiot who got caught is someone who has been portrayed as someone who has savagely gone after prostitution and corruption.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Ah, but we can't fire him just for being an idiot. We never got rid of Dubya for that.

I guess I'm just not interested in punishing the one tha got caught when there's zero reason to suspect that others doimg the same (or worse) are going to be dragged into the light. I'll accept it only if this crusade is politically blind and goes after each and every philanderer. Won't happen, so I won't accept it happening once (especially when Vitter is still around).

Book him on something else and throw him out or just let the voters have a referendum on him when election time rolls around again.

[avram]

Hypocrisy? Maybe. But the hooker he went to was in the trade voluntarily. The rings he broke up were involved in "sex tourism", generally a euphemistic term for international sex slavery.

[shell524.livejournal.com]

Given that prostitution is illegal (for whatever reason) whether people are in the trade voluntarily or not that doesn't really matter, now does it?

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Not legally, but to most people willing, well-paid prostitution doesn't really bother them as a business. Kinda like most people turn a blind eye to internet piracy. I don't love the kinds of abuses that come with prostitution, but it seems this particular outfit wasn't bad save for its being technically a criminal enterprise (the girls seemed to have a lot more freedom than most prostitutes do).

[hslayer.livejournal.com]

(the girls seemed to have a lot more freedom than most prostitutes do).

Yeah, I think the ones who are THAT highly paid aren't usually the same ones who worry about not getting back to Upgrayedd on time.

[wellgull.livejournal.com]

To the law, no; to morality, absolutely.

[hslayer.livejournal.com]

From a strictly legal perspective, mightn't he be forced out if formal charges are filed? I don't know if the governor has any sort of immunity under NYS law (as the president does under US law), but even if he does that might not help him since this was a federal investigation.

First Capone, now Spitzer...is there anyone the IRS can't bring down?

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

If there are charges, yeah, I'm sure that Bruno would have all he needs to insure an impeachment if Spitzer didn't step down. We'll have to see, but no, I don't think he is more protected against the consequences of illegal action than, say, the president (who would definitely not have any immunity were he caught in a similar scandal).

[hslayer.livejournal.com]

What I meant was that, AFAIK, the president cannot face any charges or penalties for any crime except via the impeachment process. (I'm fairly sure I remember that from, like, high school, but it's possible I'm on crack?) I wasn't sure if New York's constitution similarly protected its governor, but even if so, I imagine it couldn't protect him from federal prosecution.

Point being, aren't these (not just the charges relating to prostitution, but apparently he may have violated banking laws to hide the money transfers, and other things as well) the sorts of crimes that could land someone in prison? Not that I think that's particularly likely, but he could face more challenges to his continued governance than the political ones.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Yeah, okay, there's where I have no idea. Do you have to impeach him first before you can charge him with shit? No clue. He should resign for the banking shit which could also be a crime (a white-collar sort, too--the kind he went after most vigorously as AG).

And Bruno et al. are already chomping at the bit to impeach him, so I doubt he'll have long to consider resigning or not. It's sort of a foregone conclusion. It's also almost exactly why Bill Clinton was impeached--not for the sex, but for the cover-up.

[avram]

It's actually a lot more complicated than that. The Supreme Court has ruled that a sitting president has immunity from civil damages for actions arising out of the execution of his official duties (Nixon v Fitzgerald, 1982 ), this immunity does not extend to actions taken before taking office (Clinton v Jones, 1997), and I'm guessing might not apply to unofficial actions taken while in office.

That immunity arises out of the Constitutional principle of separation of powers. I don't think any such principle exists in the NY State constitution. The NY State constitution does say, however, that "The power of grand juries to inquire into the willful misconduct in office of public officers, and to find indictments or to direct the filing of informations in connections with such inquiries, shall never be suspended or impaired by law."

[lemeritage.livejournal.com]

You say monkey face, I say Beeker from the Muppet Show.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

You would have a point.