The Rabbit Hole

Blue!Ten shouldn't be able to function without the TARDIS. He may be half human, but he must be physically Time Lord in most ways to be able to contain his own brain (or he'd suffer the same fate as Donna).

I really, really thought that, with the worlds crossing over and such, maybe the Time Lords would return--if you can unmake the universe, why can't you unlock time? Nope, instead, we went for the cheap shots. I loved Rose as much as anyone in the day, but watching old DW has cured me of the impulse to "ship" (not sexually, but as a partnership forevers and evers) the Doctor and Rose. New companions are as necessary as air. Going back is fine for a visit, but when they leave the TARDIS, he has to let them go. But Russell T Davies couldn't because he was so in love with his companion. Phhbbtt :P

Could you write this ficlet? Maybe if Blue!Ten and Donna were together, he'd stabilize her somehow. They could stay a pair. I'm surprised that the Doctor didn't leave Donna with him in the first place. She proved she was more human and humane and she could definitely corral him ever since before he was two people. Giving him away to Rose gives her an icky "happily ever after" (way to grow up and get over it, Rose) and kills Donna. Fuck that noise. You fix, I read!

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neo-leviathan.livejournal.com

Unfortunately the person who write 12/13 has a serious crush on Billie Piper, and therefore had to give her the best possible resolution, *AND* remove the current companion from the picture (ZOMG! The doctor with a strong female companion that doesn't want to screw him? We can't have that!)

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Russell T Davies wrote the last episodes, so, yeah, o'course he's in love with Rose. But part of what I always felt made Doctor Who a strong show is the sense that everyone still grows up. They leave. No one can be the Doctor, and no one should. I (used to) think the universe would implode if there was more than one of him. (Not so, says RTD!) Everyone with him gets something from being with him but needs to go home. They need to have their adventures but then face the scariest adventure and grow up, get older, and, eventually, die. If they stayed with the Doctor forever, they'd never get the chance to do what he can't (OR SO I THOUGHT) and move on. That's what Nine said was brilliant about the couple getting married in "Father's Day"--getting married, having kids, growing old, dying forever--these things seem so impossible to him. And they are. For as long as the show exists, they are, and, given how long the show has lasted and how long it could last, it might as well be forever. You and I may never see the end of it. Because we will grow up and go on life's adventure. If the companion never does, how can we possibly sympathize? Sigh.

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I've replied to several people about the end of this past season, previously. Let's just say I was not impressed, and that I'm glad RTD will no longer be the show-runner, which hopefully means he won't be allowed to write any more episodes. Because these past three years, when he has written the episodes they've been utter crap fan-wanks.

I want Donna back.

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I want Donna back like burning. The mind-wiped Donna is just...she's worse than she was before she met the Doctor. I'll never forgive him for it. Never ever. I had my issues with manic Ten forever and pseudo-dark Ten, but now I just plain hate him.

He didn't make her better; she made him better. I hope he regenerates really, really soon.

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I agree, she's worse, and I hate him for that as well--but RTD, not Ten. It's RTD who did it, by preventing Ten from doing any of the ten to twenty brilliant things he could have done to save her WITHOUT the mind-wipe. It isn't the character's fault that the writer can't think of better alternatives.

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But it's Ten who did it, and he's the one who goes on living in this fantasy with that on his conscience. As far as the universe is concerned, he did it. RTD is a lazy bastard, and I hate that he reduced the Doctor to this to make him so "dangerous," but I hate that Ten did it. Hate.

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I can see that. I just don't approach it that way. One of my biggest dislikes is when a writer is too sloppy or stupid to do something right, and so has a character do something inane or has a ridiculous plot twist instead. I don't blame that on the characters or the plot, though. It's definitely the fault of the writer. So yes, I hate that Ten acted that way, but he's just a puppet and when RTD writes him his strings are far too evident.

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jendaby.livejournal.com

The original thought I had was "What? Rose gets a consolation prize?" and I was so incredibly annoyed, because they were making such a big deal about Rose, who, let's face it, was being really whiny and immature and selfish in those two episodes... and crap for Donna - who had compassion and cared about everyone and everything, and was such a strong female character!

I know some people cried because Rose had to go back to the alternate universe, and some people cried because the ditto doctor was given as a substitute for the real thing. Whatever.

I cried for Donna. Especially because he made the decision of what was going to happen FOR HER, without giving her options, without asking what she wanted. He just decided "I will do this" and he did - and she had no choice in the matter. None. And then she was gone. And I was really angry because it left the viewer feeling violated somehow - the fact that she was just disposed of in such a sloppy and unjust way, and that ultimately all power - even the power of choice, was just ripped away from her like that. Infuriating!

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Yeah, all that hoopla about Rose returning, and she did what? Not a whole lot of anything. Jackie and Mickey, trailing after her, were more useful.

And you've hit the nail on the head--the problem for me is not that Donna got her mind-wiped (though that IS a problem) it's that she didn't choose it. The Doctor wiped his own mind when he pretended to be John Smith last season, and that was awful. How can he ignore that lesson entirely and just do it to Donna without her wanting him to? It was so horrid; she just kept saying "No, no, no" and he went and did it anyway. So gross.

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Well, yes. But the Doctor is far from perfect--he's broken. And as much as I hate the way it ended, because I really loved Donna, I can't deny that it was unexpected and bold and heart-breaking. While RTD could have found a way out of it, and maybe it was easier as a writer to destroy Donna instead of finding a clever way to save her, I can't deny that it affected me. That's what stories should do whether you agree with them or not. Joss killing Wash? That sucked, but so does reality. We can't all have happy endings. There are the Roses of the world, and the Donnas, and most of us are the Donnas.

I find the thought of losing my memories and personality as a fate worse than death, and so did Donna I'll wager. But the Doctor is so damned obsessed with saving people, he couldn't think it through.

Here's an interesting article about it: http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=721

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And maybe, probably, the Doctor will pay for what he did. There he is at the end of the episode... Alone again, faced with the consequences of what he and his double did. Honestly, I think the way to play the next season is to stick him on a planet somewhere and have him destroy or disable his own TARDIS voluntarily, having finally realized that it's too dangerous for him to go on traveling through time and space. He needs to be alone, grounded like the third Doctor (only without UNIT!) to pay for his sins. Dunno how to pull him out of a funk like that, but I'd like to see this addressed.

Unfortunately, with RTD in charge of the next few specials before Moffat takes over, I doubt these events will be followed up satisfactorily at all.

He was so messed up after losing Rose, he should be practically incapacitated without Donna. Her character deserves it, and so do the viewers.

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Part of what pisses me off most about it is the fact that it doesn't feel like they're going to follow-up on it. I mean, I understand Stephen Moffat not wanting to be hamstringed by RTD's loose ends. He's probably got his own fantastic fun stuff to be doing. But something needs to happen. The Doctor does have to pay for what he's done.

I honestly would love penning Ten up like Three. Maybe the Doctor Donna can abscond with the TARDIS as punishment when she comes to. ::crosses fingers::

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I don't see the two fates--Wash and Donna--as at all similar. Sorry. With Wash, it was just the universe. Crappy things happen, often to good people. That's just the way life is. And particularly in the Serenity-verse. But with Donna it happened because the Doctor wasn't smart enough to figure out a way to fix it. But he *is* smart enough--RTD isn't, or couldn't be bothered. I have no problem with bad things happening to good people--it is powerful--when it's done well. But IMHO this was not done well. Not at all.

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Certainly, those are different situations. I was referring to a writer killing off a beloved character. But I see that this is more about the Doctor doing something horrible. Though now that I think about it, I wonder if Davros's comment about the Doctor turning his companions into killers got to him, to the point where he wondered if she might be better off without having known him at all.

The worse thing is this clashes badly with the episode "Turn Left", which was all about choice and we saw how much better off the Doctor and she are together...

I think I might hunt for the Doctor Who Confidential for the finale to see what RTD has to say for himself.

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I haven't seen it, but I'm guessing it'll be him going on about how great it was to work in all those characters, and how wonderful to have closure for Rose, and how exciting to bring in Davros, etc. etc. In other words, more fan-wank.

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Seems like the episode could have been worse.

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Ouch! Yes, those would have made it worse. Ugh.

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viridian.livejournal.com

Ten is a dick, but wasn't everything up til the ends of Donna's and Rose's stories AWESOME? I spent all of the last two eps SHRIEKING WITH GLEE, and then five minutes going "... the HELL?"

I'll call it a win. Sort of.

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I was as bouncy as you were. I love the idea of the community of the Doctor (much better done than that terrible episode with LINDA), of the people he's affected being scarily competent on their own and joining forces reassured of each other solely because they all know that they've all been worthy of the Doctor's good graces.

And Harriet Jones! BROKE MY GODDAMNED HEART. I felt so cheated when she was villified in season two because she was an awesome, amazing, determined woman, easily a companion in her own right unlike a lot of the one-off characters that we've met along the way. She was a hero. I knew it! I knew it! Yes, we know who you are, Harriet! We'll remember!

I have to believe that there will be consequences. There's a lot of good material to be made out of the Rose and Donna situations. If Stephen Moffat wants to go there, which I kind of hope he does. But he's never been as dependent on using and dragging out references to sell his stories as Russell T Davies was. I guess what frustrates me is that it really does feel like this will be dropped--we'll never hear about Donna again (except possibly to angst over her) or Blue!Ten (who shouldn't exist). Either the change over with the production/direction/writing will drop it because it was a bad move in the first place to throw that in there, or they'll just be so wrapped in their own stuff they won't have time to revisit. I don't know. If I thought we had another season coming and they might FIX THIS, I'd be less crushed.

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viridian.livejournal.com

WELL, rumor has it that Catherine Tate is signed on for something or other in the upcoming 4 episode thing. It may be a flashback appearance or set chronologically earlier, though.

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Sigh. I really wish she had to be with Blue!Ten just to keep both of them stable. I fully believe he's going to go psychotic. Just because he's not entirely physically Time Lord doesn't mean he's not just as much the Doctor as the Doctor. The Doctor would go bonkers tied down and crippled being half-human. Plus, how majorly, psychotically depressing is it to know you're going to die instead of regenerate endlessly!? I think he and Donna should pair up to stay sane and have wacky adventures. (aka More of this season please!)

I would love Catherine Tate to come back. She's so brilliant.

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viridian.livejournal.com

Well, supposedly parts of the story were cut for time that explained that the Doctor was given a piece of coral to grow his own TARDIS, blah blah stupid expositioncakes.

I like dark!fic in which the new Doctor goes completely psycho, though. And I'm a Rose fan. I just think it would be interesting.

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If you find any good fic like that, please send it my way. I need to undo that crap-ass "solution" like I need to drink Diet Pepsi.

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