Random thought

[trinityvixen]

My comic-twitter-pated friend here at work handed me "Last Son," a Superman story wherein Supes babysits a Kryptonian boy and it's all awwwww, ain't it cute but ultimately tragic because of course this can't last.

All I could think of afterwards is: Maybe all his "kids" turn into disaffected, bitter freaks, but Batman is so totally a better father than Superman.

Even I think I'm wrong about that, yet I cannot make myself refute my own brain-dropping. So, yeah, there it is. Supes is just too...not good at the parenting thing. Bats might be hella demanding, demeaning, and intimidating, but if the end result is more superheroes, it's hard to fault the guy, is it?

Comments

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

I do not think Bruce Wayne would at all be a good parent. As someone once described to me, whenever Bruce has been teetering at the edge, he's always had Alfred to pull him back. Whenever one of the Robins has been at the edge, they've always had Bruce pushing them over.

I don't know about better father than Superman or not, but he demands so much of his kids they kill themselves giving until they're old enough to realize how unreasonable he is. It's clear that he cares for them, but clear also that he cares more for the mission. The fact that he'd let Timothy Drake fight crime ever says to me he's a bad parent. That's freaking child endangerment. That's crazy.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I can't disagree with a single point! In fact, I agree! But for some reason, my brain won't let go of this idea that Bruce Wayne--possibly psychotic, fond of the dark, genius billionaire--is a better role model than Clark Kent--good citizen, fair-play advocate, defender of truth, justice, and all that stuff. What the F, brain?

Perhaps it's because in this particular comic TPB, Clark leapt at the chance to help the kid without considering that a) his parents weren't willing to parent another Kryptonian to manhood, and b) neither was his wife. His enthusiasm ran ahead of his sense. I never get that feeling with Batman. His enthusiasm would be hard to find with microscope, as far as parenting his wards goes, but he does put out some astonishingly competent (and, yes, occasionally batshit--no pun!) human beings at the end of it.

I guess it's a question of which paternalistic stereotype bothers you more?

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

Bruce definitely falls into that awesome bad father archetype that pops up so much in genre stuff. I'm just rewatching Alias, and Jack Bristow is exactly that type of guy. Or Lionel Luthor on Smallville. Those magnificent bastard types who are emotionally abusive to their kids and yet are just so ... awesome whenever they're on screen, and their poor emotionally battered children are so awesome, that you can't help forgiving them just a little.

I haven't read the comic, but Superman is often portrayed (sometimes intentionally, as in Kingdom Come, sometimes unintentionally, as in Smallville) as a self-righteous dick. A much more common type of bad father, to be sure.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I guess that's why: I'm biased and predisposed to approve of Batman where I won't Superman.

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

This is so much "it depends on the writer" it's not even funny. But if you can get your hands on a copy of John Byrne's Superman/Batman: Generations, I highly recommend it.

The general facts of which of them would be a better parent are mired in the bit that they don't have (and won't have, because the status quo is everything) biological children. The difference I'll note, though, is that Batman has three adopted sons and an adopted daughter (not counting the extended Bat-family of Oracle, Spoiler, Catwoman, etc), by choice. He has a paternal instinct for kids who re-live his origin (basically, orphans). Superman has "adopted" Supergirl (both Kara Zor-El and Matrix), Superboy (Kon-El), Christopher Dru-Zod Kent, and a few others, but it's not because he wants to parent them, it's because he's the only one who can. And he tends to dump them on the Kents as soon as he can.

Bruce wants to be "active" parent. Clark wants to be the "distant" parent. And damn, suddenly there's a slash image I didn't want. I wonder if this idea is why Apollo and Midnighter adopted Jenny Quantum?

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Of course you're right about the writer, but in general, I agree that Superman is always going to be the more aloof parent by virtue of the fact that he's an ideal, not a person. There's that great rant in Kill Bill Vol. 2 where Bill says that Superman is the only hero unlike the others by virtue of starting as the super and having to dress up like the mundane. (For all that Batman's true face is his cape and cowl, Bruce Wayne started as Bruce Wayne and became Batman.) It's always been hard for me to relate to Superman, and I think that really points at why.

It becomes a question of your parenting ethics: is a benevolent, absent father figure better than a demanding, omnipresent one? Obviously, neither are ideal--you'd want something sort of in between (but as far from absent or demanding as possible). I guess the defensiveness that popped up stems from the fact that Batman is constantly taken to task for how he raised the kids in his care, whereas all the kids to come out of the Superman school are more or less perfect and well-adjusted no matter what Superman did or didn't do right as a "father." To my mind, that's totally unbelievable--that they wouldn't hardly resent him at all as they seem not to do.

It brings me back to ages of the ideal reader for each hero. I think Superman is fundamentally a hero for younger readers. He's not exactly a challenging character to get behind; Superman is always right, always the hero in the spotlight, always strong, always amazing, always moral. Batman, on the other hand, is a better hero for teenagers and above because you get into the question of justice more than just right vs wrong. There are questions of morality, of responsibility with Batman, and although he is very smart, he isn't always right. He's also a hair's breadth from insanity, which, um, I don't remember seeing too often with Superman. There seems to be more nuance with Batman. It still varies with the writers, of course, but that's my general impression.