A musical idiot talks about music
Apr. 15th, 2010 12:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
trinityvixenWhat to do about this blog post? On the one hand, yes, the "girls can't play in bands" phenomena is so very clearly a problem. It's pervasive. I remember thinking I couldn't play drums as a kid because I was a girl. That, and the band director was like, "I let ONE person play drums. Try another instrument if you want to play. I only take the best." He said this. To fourth graders. Another fun story about this guy: he threw a stand over the clarinet section when he got pissed off. Yeah, I dropped band.
Point is, though, that there are music snobs, the worst of which are rock music snobs, and their elitism, because it is based on an industry that still finds female rock musicians to be "novelties," whether they're in a band with dudes or not, is among the most obnoxious form of sexism. The line she talks about--"I don't like how girls sound"--is, truly, the dumbest shit ever. It is also so pervasive that women internalize it, too. Unless you try, you can go for so long without listening to a Band With Girl In It or a Band With Female Singer, that it might be hard to adjust to that difference. But that's just it, that's the problem right there: if we played more female-fronted acts (and not just in the singer/songwriter, shake-for-the-menfolk-so-they'll-listen-to-you-maybe Beyonce way), we might become more comfortable with female voices! SHOCK.
I frequently don't like how girls sound either, until I actually listen to them. I'm probably the worst person to offer an opinion on this, since I don't make the effort either. I lucked into loving Garbage when my good friend from high school (who had excellent taste--back then) gave me their first CD. Shirley Manson kicked ass. The linked Le Tigre song...not a fan. But then I don't like screaming instead of words, generally. (Punk music and I---It's Complicated.) I still don't like what I termed, rather sexist-ly, "whiny vagina music." But then, for the most part, I don't like "droopy dick music" either. I'll listen to some emo--I'll confess I still have Linkin Park mp3s, and maybe A Simple Plan, too--but rarely.
But I like rock. I don't have the musical vocabulary to explain why I like what I do, but I can identify some common themes. A lot of what I like best I was exposed to young, so there's some nostalgia factor there. Case in point: I've liked every Garbage album since the two I had in high school less. The same is true of Nine Inch Nails, which I also discovered in high school thanks to my awesome-taste friend. I like things that are sing-able because I like to sing, so there has to be enough of an element of musicality. It can't just be noise and screaming, though I do also like songs that throw in random noises and lots of screaming. (Hello, Trent Reznor.)
My rock exposure is limited, and I'm bad about branching out, which is why something like Rock Band is good for me. It encourages me to discover more music, most of which I happily do. It involves you in music almost against your will for the sake of having fun, and you just become interested. Or you don't, and you move onto the next song. But, really, that's helped a lot. I think that, rather than trying to convert dudes of the "I don't like girls' voices" variety, is a better way to educate them about the worthy ladies of rock. Of course, you have to get them onto the Rock Band platform, which hasn't happened with the same frequency as with male bands.
But? Video gaming, despite its own problems with sexism, is actually a much more female-friendly arena when it comes to how men feel about having women be involved. The blog post I linked to points out how hipster music snob douche-bags run screaming from bands they like if women start to take any interest in them in large numbers or if one woman gets to know them even better than they do. Video gaming is different. After going to PAXEast, I can safely say that most gamers Are Not Like That. The idea that a woman wants to play, say, God of War III or dresses up like and enacts the character play-style of the Witch from Left 4 Dead is treated as an awesome thing. Much as the people who make games frequently shove their feet into their mouths about how they can't possibly do anything different to make games more interesting to women, the gamer community is not hostile to having women cohorts. So a game like Rock Band has a better chance of exposing men and women to female-possessing rock groups in which they might not otherwise take an interest.
We just have to get them on that platform.
Point is, though, that there are music snobs, the worst of which are rock music snobs, and their elitism, because it is based on an industry that still finds female rock musicians to be "novelties," whether they're in a band with dudes or not, is among the most obnoxious form of sexism. The line she talks about--"I don't like how girls sound"--is, truly, the dumbest shit ever. It is also so pervasive that women internalize it, too. Unless you try, you can go for so long without listening to a Band With Girl In It or a Band With Female Singer, that it might be hard to adjust to that difference. But that's just it, that's the problem right there: if we played more female-fronted acts (and not just in the singer/songwriter, shake-for-the-menfolk-so-they'll-listen-to-you-maybe Beyonce way), we might become more comfortable with female voices! SHOCK.
I frequently don't like how girls sound either, until I actually listen to them. I'm probably the worst person to offer an opinion on this, since I don't make the effort either. I lucked into loving Garbage when my good friend from high school (who had excellent taste--back then) gave me their first CD. Shirley Manson kicked ass. The linked Le Tigre song...not a fan. But then I don't like screaming instead of words, generally. (Punk music and I---It's Complicated.) I still don't like what I termed, rather sexist-ly, "whiny vagina music." But then, for the most part, I don't like "droopy dick music" either. I'll listen to some emo--I'll confess I still have Linkin Park mp3s, and maybe A Simple Plan, too--but rarely.
But I like rock. I don't have the musical vocabulary to explain why I like what I do, but I can identify some common themes. A lot of what I like best I was exposed to young, so there's some nostalgia factor there. Case in point: I've liked every Garbage album since the two I had in high school less. The same is true of Nine Inch Nails, which I also discovered in high school thanks to my awesome-taste friend. I like things that are sing-able because I like to sing, so there has to be enough of an element of musicality. It can't just be noise and screaming, though I do also like songs that throw in random noises and lots of screaming. (Hello, Trent Reznor.)
My rock exposure is limited, and I'm bad about branching out, which is why something like Rock Band is good for me. It encourages me to discover more music, most of which I happily do. It involves you in music almost against your will for the sake of having fun, and you just become interested. Or you don't, and you move onto the next song. But, really, that's helped a lot. I think that, rather than trying to convert dudes of the "I don't like girls' voices" variety, is a better way to educate them about the worthy ladies of rock. Of course, you have to get them onto the Rock Band platform, which hasn't happened with the same frequency as with male bands.
But? Video gaming, despite its own problems with sexism, is actually a much more female-friendly arena when it comes to how men feel about having women be involved. The blog post I linked to points out how hipster music snob douche-bags run screaming from bands they like if women start to take any interest in them in large numbers or if one woman gets to know them even better than they do. Video gaming is different. After going to PAXEast, I can safely say that most gamers Are Not Like That. The idea that a woman wants to play, say, God of War III or dresses up like and enacts the character play-style of the Witch from Left 4 Dead is treated as an awesome thing. Much as the people who make games frequently shove their feet into their mouths about how they can't possibly do anything different to make games more interesting to women, the gamer community is not hostile to having women cohorts. So a game like Rock Band has a better chance of exposing men and women to female-possessing rock groups in which they might not otherwise take an interest.
We just have to get them on that platform.
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no subject
Date: 2010-04-15 05:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-15 05:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-15 05:32 pm (UTC)Clearly you don't spend enough time with classical musicians. The elitism is totally different, though. Wouldn't say not gender based, even though women are welcomed and prominent musicians...of some things. There are still incredibly few women conductors. But there's also the whole female diva baggage.
Man, the collision of my choir and the professional choir at the Mahler concerts last year? Not pretty. Not pretty at all.
Also, this is why I've always loved Heart. In my vast collection of classic rock, they're the only women. And they're really good.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-15 05:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-21 12:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-15 07:07 pm (UTC)I tend to like the male singing voice more, but women making music is really awesome, and I think highly of bands who have female members!
no subject
Date: 2010-04-15 07:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 04:42 am (UTC)As far as dude music vs. chick music goes, I've got a ton of music and the female artists are greatly outnumbered in my collection, but that's just because there aren't as many out there...at least, not as many that get enough exposure to reach my ears. Some of my very favorite artists are female or bands that have female singers: The Bangles (don't laugh! They were a hell of a rock band!), Heart (same), Garbage, No Doubt (they got pretty pop-y, but you can't deny them), Nikka Costa, Moloko, Jem, Joan Jett/The Runaways, Jill Scott, Lauryn Hill, the list goes on.
For me, it's simply about the music and the mood I'm in when I listen to it, period. It does seem to me like female artists are often persuaded to rely on certain stereotypes and cheap marketing ploys, basically selling out, to gain more attention though. I don't know any of these artists, so I could obviously be way off in the impressions I get in the first place, but the ones I like the most are the ones who seem to truly have their own ideas, personality and attitude, and are not just putting on whatever guise will appeal to the most people. *shrug* Anyway, here are a couple examples of my favorites...
Damn, this woman has soul
Yes, they were beautiful and yes, the label took advantage of it and exploited it, but no one rocked harder than the Wilson sisters in Heart before they got stuck on ballads...
Jesus, and how could I forget Cass Elliot and The Mamas & The Papas? I don't think there's ever been a more beautiful voice and she took and takes so much shit for having been overweight, right down to the myth that she died choking on a sandwich or something like that.
Ok, I'm done; I swear.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-16 04:16 pm (UTC)And you don't see them ANGRY in quite the same way that hard core male rockers can be. Only very rarely do you get that sort of edginess breaking through to common or even specialist, music-snob popularity. I have to believe that part of that is because of the pervading stereotype that good girls don't behave that way, and bad girls behave, well, slutty not shout-y. And? They do. Even the female-led bands like No Doubt and Garbage? Gwen Stefani is a sex object, no matter her ska-ish beginnings or incredible athleticism (THAT WOMAN'S ABS!!). And if she is a sex object, model-thin, model-pretty, frequently-actually-a-model Shirley Manson definitely is. And I wouldn't classify any of their music as shouty.
Not that it's bad to have sexy songs from females. Because the female is so associated with sex, I, too, find female songs sexy. Grace Slick? Stop me before I die listening to that woman.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-17 04:55 am (UTC)It's sad that sexuality has to be so heavily focused on with most every female artist who comes onto the scene. It doesn't even matter what kind of music they make or what kind of vibe they emit, attitude or whatever -- the powers that be will always focus on sex appeal. I guess you can't blame them though, since there's no arguing that sex sells and nothing else sells nearly as well. Sure, Gwen and Shirley are both major sex symbols of their era, but they both have personality and a fierceness to them.
Good point about how men seem to do "angry" better or more naturally in music, but there are some fierce female rockers out there as well. I respected Courtney Love and Hole for that very reason. And PJ Harvey, although both of them have been around for over fifteen years.
Oh God, don't get me started on Grace Slick. One of my favorites as well, and that voice. Ugh. Linda Perry, formerly of the 90s band, Four Non Blondes, has a f'ing fantastic song with Grace Slick, called "Knock Me Out". I was going to post it last time around, but I had already posted too many as it was. This time, though, I can't resist. This is a seriously powerful song and I love seeing the old photos of Grace, as well as the couple of new ones at the end.
Huh, and it looks like someone used it to make a Firefly video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1gjmj_knock-me-out-linda-perry-grace-slic_music
no subject
Date: 2010-04-21 12:26 am (UTC)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rle2mphq-2g