He's Super!
Jan. 25th, 2006 01:06 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
trinityvixenLast night I watched The Fantastic Four with my roommate, Lisa, and her work-buddy, Hannah, after the two of them had exhausted themselves trying to keep up with this really hard-cord Pilates video. All three of us were giggling like crazy just about every time Johnny Storm opened his mouth. Characters like his tend to grate on my nerves in general, but I found him amusing even at his most sophmoric (the shaving cream wake-up slap gag blew, but ohhhhhh I died when he played that joke on Ben Grimm when they got back from space--see the movie, you'll know what I mean.
The science was dreadful, don't get me wrong--we're talking almost Hulk-level bad--but we cheerfully decided as a whole to ignore it. Why was Victor von Doom affected by the cosmic storm? Who cares! Wheeeeeeee is he evil yet? Can we reverse the Four's powers with a machine that basically exposes them to the exact same thing they went through in space? Won't that actually put them still two lefts away from making a right--180 degrees from being right, in fact? Why should it matter! Plot device! Plot device!
And no, we don't care about the inconsistency of the power usage by the Four! Let's make the Invisible Woman unable to control her powers because she's a weak female! Wasn't it bad enough she was Jessica Alba? Mr. Fantastic can take a Thing punch to the gut without so much as distending beyond two dimensions, but drop him off a roof and he gets knocked out? La la la, I'm not listening!
But speaking of Mr. Fantastic, Ioan Gruffudd is love, people. I never read The Fantastic Four, but I have read enough related Marvel titles to kind of get the idea that Reed Richards is the smartest man on the planet. Like head and shoulders above (not speaking literally, though he could be if he chose, I guess) smarter than anybody else. Forge wishes he were Reed Richards. Makes Peter Parker coming up with a tacky solution that 3M, Elmers, and Duct-Tape guys would kill for seem like a mere flight of fancy, he's that smart. When the Beast wants to feel like normal people level of smart, he talks to Reed Richards for about ten seconds. I get it: Mr. Fantastic, Super Genius.
And, of course, the movie did it's damndest to make him seem like an ineffectual monkey. Why the hell, for plot reasons or otherwise, would Reed Richards have to be portrayed as desperate and broke? And if he's famous enough to be on the cover of Wired, can't he have some sort of celebrity status that would still attract enough attention to make people sponsor him that aren't Eastern European imports like Doom? He also manages to miscalculate the speed of solar storm--BEN GRIMM'S HIDEOUS MUTATION IS ALL HIS FAULT OMG TEH ANGSTZORS!!! He can't do the math on his electricty bill (um, an old building with 1930s style elevators might not be the best power-sucker for your googly machine).
Don't let us forget, however, that he is bumbling when it comes to people, too. And within this stereotypical smart-person character quirk, Ioan Gruffudd rescued Mr. Fantastic from total abuse. He managed to act twisty circles around Jessica Alba's one facial-expression-meant-to-convey-anger/hurt/love/interest/boredom/amusement/constipation, which isn't hard, but, the miracle is he made her look better for being worth his attention!!!! There is a God, and he is an attractive Welshman with a funny name.
Oh yeah, I also dug him physically. His character was soooooo adorable in general, don't get me wrong, and Johnny Storm's ABS OF DOOM and NATURE TRAIL OF DOOM (if you don't know what this is, watch the movie, and enjoy) are pretty impressive, but I am such a sucker for Englishmen. It's like that total twerpy guy says in Love, Actually: American girls are easy for guys with accents, and the British one is just one of the best. So what if Mr. Fantastic was playing at being American (FYI, it's a passable accent, but nowhere near on par with some that I've seen in the past year--the Batman Begins imports and Jamie Bamber from Battlestar Galactica come to mind)? He was British enough on the two seconds of commentary that I could stomach before I turned it off (I really only turned it on to see who was on it, and it was kind of neat that they got all the Four on there, but it'll be a cold day in Hell before I listen to Jessica Alba whine about herself or 'her talent' for that long), and that was enough.
Essentially, it's a miracle the movie didn't suck. What with all it had working against it...
I'd heard the CGI was not impressive, and, partially as a result of reading that over and over, I tended to agree. Invisible Woman was okay with her disappearing--when she was "invisible" but still visible to the audience, they did well enough with it that I accepted it. I prefer entirely blanking out Jessica Alba, but I am not an 18-24 year old male, so therefore my vote doesn't count. Her force shield sucked, though, as did Ms. Alba's every attempt to grunt and look like she was holding an invisible large novelty beach ball when she used her powers. Ditto the Human Torch effects when he was fully on fire--they need to go bother WETA and SquareSoft and PIXAR for help with flames (and water, too, because why not? maybe they can get ideas for the Invisible Woman's powers) and then make a sequel.
But, in defence of the CGI guys, there is just no way to animate Mr. Fantastic so that it looks at all real. His powers look ludicrously fake in the comics, so no duh, it's gonna look like you blue-screened his CGI feet when the actor was suspended in air holding another guy he was supposedly rescuing while keeping his feet on the ground several feet above. And the wrapping around Ben Grimm? Yeah, the more you make use of Mr. Flexible, the worse it looks. Things to consider next time, I suppose.
The Thing was, pardon the pun, fantastic. I could have done without the whole angsty bit, as I prefer my heroes troubled, not necessarily brooding all the goddamned time, but Michael Chiklis was amazing. The makeup was good, the sound effects when he moved rock skin against rock skin were credibly....rocky-sounding. Michael Chiklis managed to emote and capture Ben Grimm in or out of the Thing costume. I like that he's unapologetically not smart, but that he's loyal and a good friend to Reed. They complement each other much better than Reed and Sue in the movie, even though I have no slash goggles and wouldn't see that pairing ever. Their friendship was really well done, one of the better exchanges of both trust and mistrust that goes along with being friends (much better done than the nag-and-little-boy syndrome between Sue and Johnny).
Doom was meh. Lisa still can't figure out why he had the mask as it hardly seems an appropriate award for anything. Meh, write it off with the plot hole that let Ben Grimm get from Europe to New York faster than anyone could think to find him (for that matter, add it to the pile of things wrong with Ben's fiancee walking out on the street in her nightie after apparently leaving her door open because there was no space to hide keys in her get up). It wasn't great, but in the comic book-to-movie adaptation cycle of the present decade, I put it below Spider-Man but above Hellboy and Daredevil (I know, that's not hard, but there are some freaks who liked Daredevil). It's certainly nowhere near the crap that was The Punisher, or what looked like crap that I never saw, like Elektra.
The science was dreadful, don't get me wrong--we're talking almost Hulk-level bad--but we cheerfully decided as a whole to ignore it. Why was Victor von Doom affected by the cosmic storm? Who cares! Wheeeeeeee is he evil yet? Can we reverse the Four's powers with a machine that basically exposes them to the exact same thing they went through in space? Won't that actually put them still two lefts away from making a right--180 degrees from being right, in fact? Why should it matter! Plot device! Plot device!
And no, we don't care about the inconsistency of the power usage by the Four! Let's make the Invisible Woman unable to control her powers because she's a weak female! Wasn't it bad enough she was Jessica Alba? Mr. Fantastic can take a Thing punch to the gut without so much as distending beyond two dimensions, but drop him off a roof and he gets knocked out? La la la, I'm not listening!
But speaking of Mr. Fantastic, Ioan Gruffudd is love, people. I never read The Fantastic Four, but I have read enough related Marvel titles to kind of get the idea that Reed Richards is the smartest man on the planet. Like head and shoulders above (not speaking literally, though he could be if he chose, I guess) smarter than anybody else. Forge wishes he were Reed Richards. Makes Peter Parker coming up with a tacky solution that 3M, Elmers, and Duct-Tape guys would kill for seem like a mere flight of fancy, he's that smart. When the Beast wants to feel like normal people level of smart, he talks to Reed Richards for about ten seconds. I get it: Mr. Fantastic, Super Genius.
And, of course, the movie did it's damndest to make him seem like an ineffectual monkey. Why the hell, for plot reasons or otherwise, would Reed Richards have to be portrayed as desperate and broke? And if he's famous enough to be on the cover of Wired, can't he have some sort of celebrity status that would still attract enough attention to make people sponsor him that aren't Eastern European imports like Doom? He also manages to miscalculate the speed of solar storm--BEN GRIMM'S HIDEOUS MUTATION IS ALL HIS FAULT OMG TEH ANGSTZORS!!! He can't do the math on his electricty bill (um, an old building with 1930s style elevators might not be the best power-sucker for your googly machine).
Don't let us forget, however, that he is bumbling when it comes to people, too. And within this stereotypical smart-person character quirk, Ioan Gruffudd rescued Mr. Fantastic from total abuse. He managed to act twisty circles around Jessica Alba's one facial-expression-meant-to-convey-anger/hurt/love/interest/boredom/amusement/constipation, which isn't hard, but, the miracle is he made her look better for being worth his attention!!!! There is a God, and he is an attractive Welshman with a funny name.
Oh yeah, I also dug him physically. His character was soooooo adorable in general, don't get me wrong, and Johnny Storm's ABS OF DOOM and NATURE TRAIL OF DOOM (if you don't know what this is, watch the movie, and enjoy) are pretty impressive, but I am such a sucker for Englishmen. It's like that total twerpy guy says in Love, Actually: American girls are easy for guys with accents, and the British one is just one of the best. So what if Mr. Fantastic was playing at being American (FYI, it's a passable accent, but nowhere near on par with some that I've seen in the past year--the Batman Begins imports and Jamie Bamber from Battlestar Galactica come to mind)? He was British enough on the two seconds of commentary that I could stomach before I turned it off (I really only turned it on to see who was on it, and it was kind of neat that they got all the Four on there, but it'll be a cold day in Hell before I listen to Jessica Alba whine about herself or 'her talent' for that long), and that was enough.
Essentially, it's a miracle the movie didn't suck. What with all it had working against it...
I'd heard the CGI was not impressive, and, partially as a result of reading that over and over, I tended to agree. Invisible Woman was okay with her disappearing--when she was "invisible" but still visible to the audience, they did well enough with it that I accepted it. I prefer entirely blanking out Jessica Alba, but I am not an 18-24 year old male, so therefore my vote doesn't count. Her force shield sucked, though, as did Ms. Alba's every attempt to grunt and look like she was holding an invisible large novelty beach ball when she used her powers. Ditto the Human Torch effects when he was fully on fire--they need to go bother WETA and SquareSoft and PIXAR for help with flames (and water, too, because why not? maybe they can get ideas for the Invisible Woman's powers) and then make a sequel.
But, in defence of the CGI guys, there is just no way to animate Mr. Fantastic so that it looks at all real. His powers look ludicrously fake in the comics, so no duh, it's gonna look like you blue-screened his CGI feet when the actor was suspended in air holding another guy he was supposedly rescuing while keeping his feet on the ground several feet above. And the wrapping around Ben Grimm? Yeah, the more you make use of Mr. Flexible, the worse it looks. Things to consider next time, I suppose.
The Thing was, pardon the pun, fantastic. I could have done without the whole angsty bit, as I prefer my heroes troubled, not necessarily brooding all the goddamned time, but Michael Chiklis was amazing. The makeup was good, the sound effects when he moved rock skin against rock skin were credibly....rocky-sounding. Michael Chiklis managed to emote and capture Ben Grimm in or out of the Thing costume. I like that he's unapologetically not smart, but that he's loyal and a good friend to Reed. They complement each other much better than Reed and Sue in the movie, even though I have no slash goggles and wouldn't see that pairing ever. Their friendship was really well done, one of the better exchanges of both trust and mistrust that goes along with being friends (much better done than the nag-and-little-boy syndrome between Sue and Johnny).
Doom was meh. Lisa still can't figure out why he had the mask as it hardly seems an appropriate award for anything. Meh, write it off with the plot hole that let Ben Grimm get from Europe to New York faster than anyone could think to find him (for that matter, add it to the pile of things wrong with Ben's fiancee walking out on the street in her nightie after apparently leaving her door open because there was no space to hide keys in her get up). It wasn't great, but in the comic book-to-movie adaptation cycle of the present decade, I put it below Spider-Man but above Hellboy and Daredevil (I know, that's not hard, but there are some freaks who liked Daredevil). It's certainly nowhere near the crap that was The Punisher, or what looked like crap that I never saw, like Elektra.
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no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 06:15 pm (UTC)*grumble grumble grumble*
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 06:46 pm (UTC)But the movie didn't really take itself too seriously, and it didn't ask that you believe Doom was actually a really tormented soul or that Jessica Alba even went to college, let alone MIT. It just said "Have fun, kiddies!" and it was fun.
Elektra on the other hand looked like it had any and all fun from Daredevil forcibly removed through its star's ass. I don't think I saw a single ad or clip where Jennifer Garner smiled. And as much as Jessica Alba annoys me, Jennifer Garner is worse. She may be a slightly better actress (as in, she can in fact act if she's pulling from her real life experiences, a la her turn as a whore in Catch Me If You Can or a loser's girlfriend in Dude, Where's My Car?), but she's nowhere near as talented as some folk like to believe.
I'll rent Elektra, though. Why not? I might as well. I mean, I've seen the worst comic-book adaptation ever (The Punisher) and also the one that made the least amount of sense (hello, Hellboy), why not also watch the most joyless one? If I can stomach Jennifer Garner that long, that is...
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 06:54 pm (UTC)I thought Hellboy made sense.
And speaking of The Punisher, I again have to favor the old one. The Dolph Lundgren version is just plain funny.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:00 pm (UTC)Anyway, I just meant that I get it. A lot of The Fantastic Four ought to have made me hate it, especially the kid playing the Human Torch. Still, I dunno, he pulled it off by being especially giddy about his powers. I find it's a rare thing that someone actually enjoys being a super-hero these days. He's not Magneto, thinking his powers make him superior; he's not alienated--literally--like Superman from the world around him. He's a young punk, he can fly and set things on fire, and he wants to live it up. I say, let him. He crashes and (ugh) burns, his bad.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 06:26 pm (UTC)And don't ever see Elektra. It is even worse than it looks. If Daredevil made me sad for my favorite Marvel character, Elektra made me outraged for one of the most kick-ass females in comics. Just... GRAH.
And while The Punisher is total kitsch, I heart Thomas Jane as Frank Castle liek, whoa.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 06:57 pm (UTC)And don't ever see Elektra. It is even worse than it looks. If Daredevil made me sad for my favorite Marvel character, Elektra made me outraged for one of the most kick-ass females in comics. Just... GRAH.
Beyond an issue here or there, I've never read either line. I ought to catch up, I suppose. Add it to the list. As for the movies, well, I guess the problem with both can be summed up in one word: casting. When you hire Ben Affleck to play someone who is dark and tortured, you are setting yourself up to fail. When you let him hire his girlfriend to play his lover, you're kidding yourself that this will work. Bribing Kevin Smith to say he loves the thing only works to draw in those still stupid enough to believe Kevin Smith is infallible after Jay and Slient Bob Strike Back.
Jennifer Garner = HAAAAATE. Maybe I can catch the film at home some time. No way am I waiting for my one-at-a-time Netflix queue to get me past that shit.
And while The Punisher is total kitsch, I heart Thomas Jane as Frank Castle liek, whoa.
No need to be timid. I'm a female. I, too, enjoyed Thomas Jane as Frank Castle. He looked soooooo hot with the dark hair. I don't normally find him attractive at all (I've always called him 'the fish guy' after watching Deep Blue Sea, after all). But the dark hair, gah. The beating him up, gah-uh. Too bad the rest of the movie got in the way...and John Travolta chewing scenery...haaaaaaaaate...
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 11:01 pm (UTC)You should! They're two of Marvel's strongest characters - the best respective introductions to them would be Elektra: Assassin and Daredevil: Born Again, both penned by Frank Miller. All of the recent work on the Daredevil title (by Bendis/Maleev) has been excellent, as well - character-driven crime noir at its finest.
As for the movies, well, I guess the problem with both can be summed up in one word: casting.
Precisely. Affleck is who one would cast in a parody of Daredevil. And Jennifer Garner just makes... no... sense. "Exotic Greek assassin" would conjure up about fifty actresses before her name. They couldn't even dye her hair black, for heaven's sake.
/endrant
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 06:57 pm (UTC)I have a little soft spot in my heart for Jessica Alba. I loved Dark Angel, and so I liked her. I'll admit her career's gone nowhere and she was fairly lousy in this movie, but I miss Dark Angel.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:11 pm (UTC)As for Ioan, well, I can't say as I love love love him, because nine-tenths of my crushes are really based on the character the actor plays. So, in fact, I love Reed Richards. But there's a kind of hitch in that I also loved Lancelot in King Arthur (wheee he wields two swords and has floppy hair!).
Speaking of King Arthur, that movie actually threw slash goggles at me and told me to buckle up for safety. Arthur and Lancelot? Totally wanted to do each other but clearly thought it would wreck their dynamic. The nymphette (aka Keira Knightley) only had a chance with either of them because they were both frustrated with each other. I was telling Lisa that last night, 'cause there's this totally hot scene where Lancelot's pissed at Arthur and he tells Arthur to stop praying.... "Stop talking to God and talk to me!" Maaaaan, Lancelot sounds like a bitch, but he was sooooo hot.
Then again, if you throw Clive Owen into a room, there's got to be something pretty special about the other person to make me pay attention to them instead, so, yeah, Ioan Gruffudd = fairly hot.
I will check out the Hornblower set. The period doesn't interest me, but my family has it, I think, and it got great reviews.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:26 pm (UTC)Lancelot: I don't like this plan! Your Roman government sucks balls!
Arthur: I know, but we'll get free this time, I promise? Have I ever lied to you, baby? And, speaking of sucking....
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Date: 2006-01-25 07:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 08:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:12 pm (UTC)[/digression]
I didn't see Fantastic Four because I love Dr. Doom unreasonably and was pretty sure they would fuck him and his totally awesome backstory up, but maybe I should get a little drunk and watch it with some fangirl friends.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:23 pm (UTC)You're not the only one to have said this. I still just don't get it. Nazis + Rasputin. W, T, and F? Plus there's the monster squid thing at the end. Huh? The makeup (not the CGI) was astounding, though, I give you that. Abe and Hellboy were mind-bogglingly well done. I thought some of the dialogue was really great, too--like when Hellboy gets love advice from the kid? Or when wimpy agent-boy hits who's it to piss her off? She looked pissed!
I didn't see Fantastic Four because I love Dr. Doom unreasonably and was pretty sure they would fuck him and his totally awesome backstory up, but maybe I should get a little drunk and watch it with some fangirl friends.
Yeah, they probably did. I heard that complaint from an FF fan who saw the film in theaters. I looked up his bio at Marvel.com to see what, if any, powers besides being a dictator he had.
He has a metal suit that kicks major ass. He's evil's Iron Man, woo-hoo. But the movies can't ever just accept that and move past it. Sure, Batman can have a suit that does impossible things, but a metal suit that generates a force field, blasts people, etc etc? No way, that would be too heavy to move, or some shit, and that's not realistic ::sweatdrops::
The guy is reasonably menacing, though, if that helps. That he screams slimeball probably won't...
no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 07:47 pm (UTC)It's the WTF factor that makes it brilliant =)
He has a metal suit that kicks major ass.
Right! The metal suit was made by black magic Tibetan monks. (God, I love comics.) You should read Triumph and Tragedy, the Dr. Doom/Dr. Strange crossover. Dr. Doom rescues his mother's soul from Hell. It is awesome.
marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-25 07:37 pm (UTC)Ok why my willpower holds, here's a few answers to some things you had up in the entry.
First Reed Richards before the storm was no where near as intelligent as Reed after the storm. Put simply, the storm also hyped up his brain on a order of magnitude. Second, right after they got their powers they really had a hard time controlling them for quite some time (though the movie gave Johnny a much faster learning curve than it should have). Forth, in the comic Reed typically had to calm Ben down taking a lot of hits in the process. The falling off the building bit in the movie I took to be a side effect of going through the machine and taking a hit of energy from you know who *blood boils*
*chants* I must not rant about Doom. I must not rant about Doom. I must not rant about Doom.
*breathes*
Off all the characters in the movie that they messed with, the Invisible Women they really did a number on. I blame the short comings of the actress slightly, but I think the retooling of the storyline for mass audiences played a much larger role. As a whole I think they did a pretty good job with the character interactions in the movie with the Fantastic Four team. I really only had one problem with the movie. One rather enormous problem.... with... a certain...
*chants* I must not rant about Doom. I must not rant about Doom. I must not rant about Doom.
*explodes*
Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-25 07:52 pm (UTC)--I like that Reed gets smarter as a result of the incident. Makes sense. If he can make his neurons shorter (that must take a lot of control, or else his unconscious frustration drives him to do it), he can increase the speed of his thought. Never thought about that. I was watching with three girls, mind. The debate about Mr. Fantastic's powers never once strayed above the belt, if you know what I mean.
--Johnny's learning curve wasn't that fast, I didn't think, or, at least not so's it was inappropriate. Both he and Reed were the types to explore every facet of their abilities, just that they went about it in different ways. Johnny pushed the envelope, Reed worked systematically. But poor Ben and Sue were really behind the curve. She was still going invisible at the slightest flush of emotion by the ending (GAG ME, WHY DOES HE WANT HER?), and Ben still hadn't gotten his strength under control (unfair characterization, I say!). I think the two of them lagging behind made Johnny look speedy. Reed, we can assume, being really, really smart, probably figured out his limitations fairly quickly.
--I still don't buy Mr. Fantastic not being able to take a jolt or two. Rubber's even less of a conductor than the human body (in fact, we enlist just that insulation property to protect ourselves when working with electricity), which the movie made a big point of making him seem like he was. However, if you go with the elemental theory, Reed is more like water than rubber (he expands to fit any size container!) in which case electricity = ouch). I was going to mention the time Reed used himself to shielf the rest of the environment from one of Cyclops' optic blasts as proof he could take a zapping, then I realized I was committing bad comic physics! Cyclops blasts are telekinetic, not electric! (WHICH STILL DOES NOT EXPLAIN WHY MAGNETO CAN DEFLECT THEM!!!)
Yeah, Doom. Well, I enjoyed him going madly mad. Just wish the actor weren't quite so good at being sleeeeeeeeazy.
Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-25 08:07 pm (UTC)*twitch twitch*
Ok, Cyclops' blasts are light (photons) based... but in a kinetic fashion. He does not have telekinetic blasts. It's why the logic behind the ruby quartz visor was that it filtered out the light so Cyclops could see without blasting everything.
As for Mr. Fantastic it's not that his body was made from rubber, it's that it gained a really high degree of plasticity. That's why kinetic attacks aren't as effective against him has energy attacks. So since Cyclops' blasts, though energy, are kinetic in nature they aren't as effective against Reed as an electrical attack.
I can no longer find the old one I use to give people as a reference, but this one is ok: Complete List of Profiles
Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-25 09:21 pm (UTC)My physics sucks, but let me see if I can defend the theory since I can't find it anywhere. Basically, Cyclops blasts, if viewed solely from the end-point of their use (i.e. the damage they cause) share none of the characteristics of an energy attack. Energy attacks alter chemical bonds and burn through things; Cyclops' blasts punch holes through sheer force--they are termed 'force blasts,' after all. Thus they are not energy blasts, and therefore they cannot be light blasts (light is energy).
His blasts also generate no heat, no scorching or burning of any kind. It is proven that energy and heat are associated. No heat, no energy (essentially the basis of the Kelvin scale, where absolute zero is when molecules cannot move due to lack of thermal energy). No energy, no light. Light most definitely does create heat. No one ever hit by Cyclops' blasts seems to complain of being singed (the headache and/or death is a different matter). That about does it for what I know about why his blasts are not energy blasts/light blasts.
For why they could be telekinetic, consider genetics. All of Scott Summers' children are incredibly power telekinetics. Cable, Nate Grey, Rachel Summerses, all of them are telekinetics whose abilities probably outstrip Phoenix's. All of them are also telepathic, like their mothers, but usually with, it is noted, less ability than Jean Grey/Madeline Pryor. Jean Grey is quite probably a better telepath than Charles Xavier, only her dual powers require an exercise regimen that has kept her from usurping Xavier's title as the most powerful telepath (and the contributions from her encounters with the Phoenix entity are not clearly understood if they play a role at all).
So, assuming the non-Mendelian separation of powers to offspring that Marvel prefers (::GRINDING OF TEETH::), we could expect the children of Scott Summers and Jean Grey to be fair telepaths, telekinetics, and whatever Scott's power is. All of the children are telepaths and telekinetics, again with telekinesis being the real muscle power in most of them. Yes, telepathy is dead important and all of them are trained and skilled at using it, but that's peanuts next to telekinesis. Cable has telekinetic ability so powerful, it keeps an organic-metallic virus from transforming his entire body into a bunch of metal wires even when he is operating on the psychic plane or kicking ass!!! It's like how Wolverine's healing ability is amazing, but when it isn't devoted to preventing the slow poisoning to death of his body from all the adamantium in his skeleton, it REALLY rocks hard-core. Non-adamantium Wolverine, it has been suggested, could probably grow his head back on. Apply that same concept to Cable, and maaaaaan, you've got a kick-ass Omega-level mutant power.
Where does that come from? It can't all be Jean's, just as Scott's genes can't not have contributed something to his offspring (after all, he's practically the only natural parent as Jean has been a clone and from another dimension in all the mother-sides of the pairings). It is therefore logical to assume that at least some of Scott's ability may be telekinetic in nature. It would certainly explain the lack of heat when he uses his powers. It might also make sense of the bizarre inability his has to harm his brother with his powers--though that phenomenon is better explained by the genetic similarity of siblings (i.e. if Scott's powers don't hurt him and his brother is his closest genetic match for being a sibling, it shouldn't hurt Alex either, makes more sense, but you know, just food for thought).
Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-25 09:21 pm (UTC)Admittedly, that's not a full argument. It doesn't promote the telekinetic aspect to Scott's powers more than it tears down the light-based argument on practicality. The genetic aspect, since it is necessarily fuzzy to allow for mutants in the first place, is a weaker link, perhaps. However, on my side is the visual that accompanies Scott's use of his powers. We constantly see characters who wield telekinetic abilities showing the use of their abilities as a color. Psylocke had a pink telekinetic knife when she and Jean swapped powers (it was still represented in color when it was only a psychic knife). Jean's powers are constantly illustrated with pink effects (or, if she's the Phoenix, as fire-tipped ones). This may be a romantic fallacy of a still frame medium, just to let you know the action is happening, but if you allow that to be the case, you would then have to allow Scott's beams, when illustrated, are much the same thing. Or, as I have argued heretofore, are in fact evidence of telekinetic beams.
Why can the telekinetic beams be filtered by ruby quartz? Who knows? Unfortunately, to provide its heroes some hindrances and helps, Marvel allows certain realities to exist without question. Adamantium is not a ferrous metal, but Magneto can rip it from Wolverine's body. Likewise, Magneto's helmet is somehow telepathy-proof, as is Juggernaut's, and, though constructed materials, they are not widely duplicated. Collars can turn powers on or off. Cyclops' visor is just a way not to make him a functionally blind man. This may not be a proof either, but it's a leap of faith that is common enough in the Marvelverse that it is not entirely out of place.
There is probably a compromise to be found in E = m(c^2) to tell you the truth. If Cyclops' blasts are the force of molecules being moved with his mind through his eyes (perhaps he would have been able to use the force through other organs--groan--if not for the head injury?), he could generate light effects from the movement of mass provided it moved sufficiently fast. Or, if you go with your argument, provided his light beams actually travelled at the speed of light (highly unlikely in a non-vacuum, but no more so than a telekinetic exciting atoms to c in the first place), they could become massive and provide the force instead of the burn.
So, maybe, just maybe, neither one of us is wrong. Go figure. That crazy Einsteinian equation!
Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-26 02:44 pm (UTC)Of course that leads me on to a slight tangent about genetics in the comic book world. Namely that often a mutant is more than the sum of his parts. There are many second generation kids whose powers have little if anything in common with their parents. Even the argument I made before about the apparent Summer's family trait is full of holes since mutant genetics is really funky in the comic book world (though the fact that Scott and Alex are immune to each others powers suggest that there is a family connection).
Of course we both run into the same problem when arguing either side of this... the writer's will. Since the writer's willed it to be so, it was (no matter how funky the science behind it). What's really interesting is to see what happens the writers are forced to quantify their creation into fixed terms (the link I provided is to the marvel rpg game stats for all the characters). Often I see shifts from edition to edition as the writers change their minds about things or have the character evolve in such a way as to be some how different (one classic example being the fact that there exists a version of Professor X that is just telekinetic enough to allow him to walk). But we are all slaves of just what the writers had to say about this, no matter how crazy the idea is (and trust me, the Marvel universe has far more broken things floating around in it).
Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-26 03:19 pm (UTC)As for mutant genetics, there aren't enough examples, you ask me. We have exactly one case where there was a child born to mutants who was normal. We haven't heard about his kids and if that trait held true, suggesting that mutations are recessive in nature. Then again, wasn't Magneto's wife a normal human? His kids are definitely mutants. This suggests incomplete penetrance of the X gene, but doesn't explain away why two of a gene would lead to power nullification.
Per their usual, the writers borrow from whatever science seems to be the most obscure to people at the time and borrow words from it to back up their inability to actually understand science. In the age of the atom, everything was radioactivity (and nevermind that being around the Incredible Hulk would probably kill you without him smashing you to bits). Now, everything is genes and evolution. Humbug, I say.
Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-26 04:21 pm (UTC)Though it was the most depressing graphic novel I ever read, X-Men The End Volume 2 (I didn't read the first one yet) introduced some more second generation x-brats whose abilities I would have liked to know more about (Rogue's and Gambit's kids & Scott's and Emma Frost's kids). Though consider this fair warning, DO NOT PICK UP THIS GRAPHIC NOVEL IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE GETTING REALLY DEPRESSED!!! It's bad, I mean really really bad. They were not embellishing when they titled this one "Heros and Martyrs". I ready to break out in tears with some of the stuff I saw.
To be honest I wish Marvel went into later generation mutant kids more often. Most examples that I can think of are team related (Fantastic Four, X-Men, etc.) Even the whole younger mutant set often doesn't get the attention they deserve.
Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-25 07:58 pm (UTC)Re: marvel geeking out
Date: 2006-01-25 08:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 09:33 pm (UTC)Granted, I'm not a big enough fan of any of these franchises to care overly much if they take great liberties with them and depart drastically from the source material. But if they botch Superman Returns, I will surely weep. Spider-man 2 and Batman Begins have set the standard pretty high.
I guess the only recent comic book movie adaptations I didn't like were Hulk (loathed might be a better term) and Elektra, despite liking Jennifer Garner well enough.
If you want to see the 1994 Fantastic Four movie, even for just a few minutes, let me know :P
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Date: 2006-01-25 09:42 pm (UTC)Another Hellboy fan. I confess, I just do not get it. This proves it is just me. Mostly, I found the whole movie bogglingly obtuse. Or obscure. Or both. The creatures were neat, the rest, meh. Acting wasn't especially great, but it's possible that another rent will change my mind.
Daredevil...well, what can I say? If it weren't for Ben Affleck, maybe--maybe--it would have been an okay movie. As was, it felt overdrawn, trying too hard to reach for the angst. The only time I actually empathized with the DD was when he had to use that immersion chamber to drown out the noise of the city. Must be rough having those ears.
Oh, and Colin Farrell was hysterical as Bullseye. I don't know the character from Adam, but if he isn't like that, I am not interested to.
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Date: 2006-01-25 10:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-25 10:52 pm (UTC)Okay, so I was looking up crap to buy from Fisher, big hairy deal. I had time. Yesterday, I nearly worked until my eyeballs bled on three things at once, ditto Friday and Monday. It's okay to be nice to me after all that.
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Date: 2006-01-26 12:29 am (UTC)*hugs Ioan tightly* The gorgeous Welshman is so very mine! ;)
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Date: 2006-01-26 02:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-26 03:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-26 07:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-26 03:11 pm (UTC)And besides, the cute and sarcastic brother was there. And did I mention 'nature trail' anywhere?
no subject
Date: 2006-01-28 02:08 am (UTC)