(no subject)

[trinityvixen]

It's really, really sad when you find yourself checking your DVD clock every ten minutes or so to figure out how long it's been since you last saw zombies. Flight of the Living Dead did eventually deliver zombies, but, sheesh, I swear that Night of the Living Dead had more zombies and faster and it was made with less than half the budget (even without adjusting for inflation) and had fewer people in it to begin with. Outtakes were great, though.

And, FINALLY, I got to see Day Watch. Can I just say (as I've said before) that I love Anton? He's absolutely the biggest fuck-up of all time, and yet? Sweetly endearing in his credulous ineptitude. I'm gonna have to watch Night Watch and then Day Watch again to be sure I appreciate all the continuities (we did pretty well among the crowd that happened to be watching of reconstructing the plot by consensus from the last film). I'd love to see more of this, but I'm afraid. ecmyers said they're filming the next one in English. Why? I mean maybe I just don't know that the entire cast is actually bilingual and proud of it, but it seems to me that you shouldn't mess with the language through which they most comfortably express themselves. Hell, bad accents can take power out of a performance; adopting another language could do god-knows-what.

Plus, Anton sounds even more pathetic with his schlubby muttering in Russian than he would do in English, and his sclubbiness is why we love him!

*

On a completely unrelated note: Rejected public proposals. Like the announcers, I've always wondered what would happen if someone actually said "no" when the grand "romantic" gesture was made. Rumor has it that this particular one was staged. If so, this one is probably fake, too. Regardless, you'll note that the crowd turns on the woman doing the rejecting pretty quick and that's the real mob reaction to her defying the narrative. Obviously, if he proposes in public, you're obligated to accept. How embarrassing for you to get that wrong.

Except? Ugh. I can't think that anyone who does this and really gets rejected would be anything but an idiot. Because there are two major reasons I could see this going wrong for that person. Either the woman never wants to marry him and he didn't know it but plowed along thinking the public proposal would force her into it; or she very likely would marry him but somehow their comfortable intimacy has not led him to realize that this is exactly the wrong way to do it. Either way, dumb move on the dude's part. I can't think of anything less romantic than thousands of strangers watching me for my every reaction and making judgments on whether it's grateful/happy/etc enough to match his grand gesture (by grand, I mean in size only, not in terms of tactfulness or true thoughtfulness). I break out into hives thinking of a traditional wedding where I would then be required to accept that I fit into some minister/justice-of-the-peace's statements about how joyous and blessed I feel to be with so-and-so. And there I'd only be doing so in front of people I know and who have, presumably, entered into friendships/are part of family such that I am allowed to do the same to them at some point. Being mushy in front of people period: DO NOT WANT.

Comments

[glvalentine.livejournal.com]

GOOD FOR THEM.

The public proposal is a huge red flag, for me, that the guy proposing will never hesitate to manipulate you or a crowd or a situation to shame the world into going his way, and he'll feel like he DESERVES [x] for having gone to some effort. Just...my skin crawls.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Right on, sistah.

Seriously, the public proposal is a big no-no unless you're dating someone who absolutely thrives on attention. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of those sort among the genders. However, I heartily second your EWWWWW. Because, um, ewww? Forget the incredible pressure, the hissing if you don't deliver, but just the ATTENTION OF ALL THOSE PEOPLE ON YOU OMFG.

Did I mention that I'd take it as a great thing if I died and few if any paid attention? I'm weird like that, but that's part of the larger dislike of being gawked at in any way that I can't control or turn around. Which this public proposal thing tweaks in all the wrong ways. Ewwwwww.

[earthrise.livejournal.com]

Holy shit...beyond reacting as if it was the woman's fault for rejecting the proposal (setup or no, how is it *her* fault?) do you see even the first few comments on YouTube?

Talk of "fat bitches" and needing to take what they can get because no one else will want them, about dumb whores, about how if it had been me I would have gone and smacked the bitch around and see what she says THEN.

I know that these are just random losers. But it still makes my skin crawl.

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking the same thing. So disgusting.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I make it a point never to read comments some places, and YouTube, predominantly, is one of them. Especially where the posting challenges people to be sympathetic or just basically act like human beings instead of trolls. It never happens, so to spare my blood pressure, I stay away.

[ahab99.livejournal.com]

In English? Whyyyyy??? I can't even.....do the books switch languages? What in the world would make them want to do that?!

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I think ecmyers said it was because of their distribution deal with Fox Searchlight--probably the thinking going along the lines of, "We have money that we're giving you which (easily) dwarfs what you could invest in your movie. How hard is it to give us a movie in the language we want?"

Answer (presumably in Russian) "YOU ARE TOOLS."

[ahab99.livejournal.com]

Who buys a movie such that the third part of a trilogy is produced in a different language? It's just such a bizarre idea that I can't even comprehend it! I would have expected them to buy the rights to just make a crappy American version way before it would ever occur to me they'd tear apart the existing trilogy like that. Producers are weird!

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

Fool, fool who does not know the cardinal rule of proposals: If you aren't certain the answer will be yes, don't ask.

But then, Jethrien and I had "discussed" getting married, then bought the ring together, then the official proposal was just a formality. (Thhough I might have done it on the P-rade grandstands at Princeton had that not been explicitly forbidden in an earlier discussion.)

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

The idea that he cannot "win" her with the threat of public shaming if she refuses reinforces the idea that this is not someone seeking a marriage on equal terms (even if he's not aware of his issues on that score). Thus, I'm certain he wouldn't put half so much thought into what she wanted (obviously, all she should want is his studly ass, and I do mean ass). As soon as he decided for her what she would want, this thing was doomed.

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

The "it's all about me" problem is gender-neutral when it comes to relationships. But yes, this guy is an idiot and has it in spades. I don't doubt that there are women who'd love to be the center of attention at a ball game (or whatever) and find that proposal romantic/cool/charming. But if you haven't found out if she's one, you shouldn't be proposing at all.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Oh, I never meant to imply it wasn't, but I'm talking about this instance specifically. That me-me-me was what I read into his proposing to her at what was (let's be honest here) a game that holds more interest for him than her.

[gryphonrose.livejournal.com]

Ah, sorry I missed the movies! They are excellent, though--I own the first one and fully intend to own the second. I also have all the books, and have promised feiran a copy of Night Watch (I have two). It's very cool, and I like Anton in the book even more than in the movie. It's interesting to see what's been changed, though.

I'm not very happy about the third movie being done in English, and not just because the language (and the subtitles, which are brilliant). Those two movies have a very Russian sensibility to them, and I love the effects, which are not done the way anyone in Hollywood would do them. I"m just afraid that Twilight Watch is going to be a typical Hollywood movie as a result, just with some cool Russian actors--who may have trouble adapting to that style.

As far as public proposals--well, my opinion is that you should never propose if you're not 99%+ certain of the answer. Which may be why it took me so long to finally pop the question to jendaby. Which I did in public, but not in front of thousands of people--there were five or so. The point was the setting (top of the London Eye) rather than any sort of public display.

And lots of people write their own vows. So at least you won't have to fit into anyone else's statements but your own.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Oh awesome! If you loan the book to feiran I can read it too! (That's how it works at our place.) I dunno if I want to wait and not know, even if the books and the movies wildly diverge in plots, what the next movie might be like (even if it is in English--yuck). I'll have her read it and tell me whether she thinks I should wait for Twilight Watch or what. I'm sorta hoping that they do both Russian and English versions. It can't be that hard with an influx of obscene American money to do two takes, right? RIGHT!?

Because, yeah, I share your fear. So much of what makes the movies awesome is how grounded in their settings they are. These are people of the place, and you know it. I mean, I got giddy thrills over them shooting parts of the Jason Bourne movies on location (OMG) just for the added authenticity that lends a scene (native extras just give it bonus credibility, and for a film that's supposed to show how the hero blends into any place, that's really, really important). I cannot imagine insisting that these actors who are, to a one, fabulous, be crippled with the constraint of how they express themselves.

And on the subject of proposals: well done, you're one of the good ones. Asking without being certain I do understand--sometimes you just never can be sure even if, logically, you know. But the best thing to do there is to do it in a place and at a time that appeals to you both to show that you want to start a relationship from a position of mutual comfort and trust and build up from there.

And it's not so much the vows I dislike as it is the whole language of weddings. "So-and-so and Such-and-such come together before you to declare their love" etc etc etc. It makes me flush with embarrassment just to contemplate anyone having that language in their heads referenced to me in any way. The cynic in me blanches. I think this was exacerbated by my cousin's wedding invite that was a book about how the princess finally met her prince. It went on and on in urple prose for about ten-fifteen little booklet pages. I laughed and then wanted to throw up. I get chills looking at invitations and picturing my name there. Ewwwww all over.

This is why I want to have a zombie-themed wedding. Something has to take the piss out of the process or I'm just going to city hall, having a party much later just to get blitzed with friends and family (as are willing) and then spending all the friggin $$$ a wedding would cost on a vacation.

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

You realize that, just last summer, Jethrien and I attended a wedding/vacation in Hawaii where the minister, a longtime friend of the couple, invoked the Invisible Pink Unicorn (hallowed be her holy hooves); then we ate sushi and had a water balloon fight.

I'm all about having issues with the bridal-industrial complex, but the last few weddings I've been to (including my own) have shown that you can ignore them all you want, and no one will care.

I think it'd be awesome if your wedding featured free zombie makeup for anyone willing to shamble convincingly, and a wedding cake shaped like braaaaaains.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

See, I don't have a problem with the wedding-with-all-the-trimmings stuff when other people do it. In fact, it's liable to make me quite mushy and disgusting. It's the idea of OTHER PEOPLE WATCHING ME BE SO that weirds me out. Do Not Want!

And, yes, I include your wedding among the "aww, this is the cutest thing ever I couldn't do it for the life of me" events. Honestly, I thought yours was the most sincere, sweetest thing ever (not to mention gorgeous), but I still flinch at the thuoght of switching places.

Re: zombie wedding? My idea is to save money on nice clothes and just go second-hand for EVERYTHING, because it's going to be torn up and bloodied. There will be aisle-shambling from the whole party, bride included. And yes, all the money saved goes to providing makeup for guests. You better believe there will be brain cake.

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

You love geeky tv, video games, sci-fi and horror movies. You don't want children but seem a big fan of sex. You want to have a zombie wedding, should you opt to get married at all. You understand Science! You bake. You're an attractive, shapely woman.

Explain to me again why there aren't constantly hoards of fanboys outside your building vying for your affection? Have they just not gotten the scent of you?

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

I think her response to that is "DO NOT WANT!"

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

I can understand that, I'm just wondering how she can leave the building without having to smack a bunch of fanboys with a cricket bat.

[kent-allard-jr.livejournal.com]

In fairness to fanboys, most of them (us?) don't harass women who clearly aren't interested. And TV's "type" (musclebound elderly serial killers) is rare among fanboys or, in fact, any group of men on Earth.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

It's also entirely possible that I radiate some aura of "Back off, possibly rabid." I get that in non-romantic situations, too. One example that always stuck out in my mind was this compulsive liar I used to be friends with who would always bother my current roommate (who knew first-hand beter than I that she was full of shit) and never me long after we stopped hanging out together. I think somehow, despite my having less concrete evidence that she was a lying sack of shit, she didn't bug me to hang out with her half so much as someone who did. Something about me reeks of "Don't bother." Alas, has it been chasing away the boys? Dunno.

[kent-allard-jr.livejournal.com]

Oh, you never come across as "rabid." The only times you come close is in LJ, and the effect isn't off-putting, it's in fact extremely charming. (Personally, I wanted to hang out with you a lot more after I read your LJ.) Sometimes you seem wary, but never hostile -- at least that's been my experience.

I think some of it is just reputation, too -- "everyone knows" you're not interested in (non-fictional) guys, so no one presses the issue.

Also, I will say that when your roomie is in her bubbly, bouncy moods she can be very hard to ignore and can overshadow you and everyone else, but that's a different issue.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I aware of what the roomie's talents can bring about in a room full of folk. I don't mind. I honestly don't like being the center of attention (though I end up there by being noisy a lot of the time).

It's not that I'm not interested in nonfictional men period, more that I've not developed a romantic interest in anyone in my life. I have, previously, I don't right now. That's life.

If I seem wary, I suppose it's that I feel better in a crowd than I do one-on-one. I dunno, the energy of a crowd is always better for making me be more talkative and generally personable. Again, I feel this is a side-effect of disliking centers of attention; when you're two, there's nowhere else for the attention to go.

[kent-allard-jr.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't like being the center of attention.

Huh, I did not know that! Good to know, I suspect.

Anyway, I doubt that anyone holds your lack of romantic interest against you. It's all cool, and you're not under any obligation to Lie Back and Think of England.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Aww, that's very sweet. I think it's mostly this problem I have of just not really wanting a relationship. I guard my (admittedly, mostly wasted) free time pretty jealously, and that's just not worked out in the past. Gotta find some time to have time for a boyfriend that doesn't feel like I have to make time.

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

I aim to flatter.

I've found, personally, that no matter how overloaded I am, relationships managed to squeeze themselves in and make it to the top of the priority queue. But I get the impression I'm unusual in that regard.

Obviously, you'll know the right guy because he'll just slot into your schedule effortlessly, in-between serial murder and rehearsing eyebrow-only seduction.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

You've got it in one. I'm looking for someone who isn't work to be with, ideally what any relationship should have. I haven't gotten there yet because I mostly don't feel the lack in my life for such a person. I'd like one, but am I missing the one that doesn't yet exist? Not really.

[moonlightalice.livejournal.com]

Being with someone you love isn't work--staying with them is, though. And you do give off an aura of DO NOT WANT, for better or worse.

I don't feel like I "lacked" anything before I was in a relationship, and I kind of resent that attitude. It doesn't "complete" me or anything, it's just another aspect of life that can bring a lot of joy (and pain). And yes, there's always time for it, especially if you're like me and fall for your best friends and thus spend time with them anyway. :D

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

I don't feel like I lack for much if anything, either. Especially not since I've got good friends who understand me at least about as well as I approximate an S.O. ever doing. Crazy, but it works. My older sister told me about how young folk in the city tend to form urban families--extensions that keep them from being lonely without the requirement of being in a relationship, and I'm loving that.

(And yes, I did suspect about that aura, as I said above. I dunno what I'm doing, but the results haven't bothered me yet. I'll have to undo the proton shields or whatever in pursuit of boy when the time comes, but I suspect I won't have to do much as I'm typically as subtle as a stampede.)

[kent-allard-jr.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've often wondered what would happen if a public proposal was rejected. When I've thought about it, I admit, I mostly consider the guy proposing (since it's about as big a humiliation as one can get), but I certainly wouldn't blame a woman for rejecting. And no, not terribly romantic, either.

Marriage proposals often seems tricky to me, since you want to be 99% sure they'll be accepted, but there's no way to be sure without asking "do you want to get married?" which would be considered a proposal, but a terribly prosaic one, so you'd have to phrase the question in a really weird way and ... yuck. I'm sure I'd fuck it up one way or another.

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm just weird that way, but I've had it come up naturally in conversation in several relationships.

Also, a proposal is a ritual, not really a formal offer/acceptance any more (if it ever was). They couple should already know the answer. The ritual involves a ring, one knee, and the exact phrase "Will you marry me?". After that, you can [magically] refer to yourselves as being engaged. It's kinda like the priest saying magic words at the wedding ceremony, really.

[kent-allard-jr.livejournal.com]

So if she rejects it's like she made her save? Is it Fort, Reflex or Will? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

The object would be to get her to intentionally fail the save. That's what I've been trying to say this whole time!

[viridian.livejournal.com]

You know, I am a fucking heartless bitch, but unless the guy was a real scumbag I'd say yes in public and at least wait til we were out in the parking lot to tell him that I'd just wanted to avoid a scene.

[viridian.livejournal.com]

... though I did tell Ben that if he embarrassed me with a public proposal the answer was automatically no, so uh, I may be the tiniest bit hypocritical. I'd like to think that I would've at least waited to kill him til we got home, though.

[viridian.livejournal.com]

... and after WATCHING those, I don't see so much a "rejected proposal" as two women going "OMG WTF DO NOT WANT" in response to the whole spectacle of the thing, which is probably how I would've reacted even if my answer later on was yes.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

See, that's what I object to. You have to wonder how many proposals like this are accepted and then later dismissed when the woman is "allowed" to vent her fury over being cornered. How many proposals didn't make it past the ride home, that sort of thing. The first example, she looked surprised and heartbroken in a way, and it seemed that she tried to explain and let him down gently then run off. That's about as good as you deserve when you invite the prying eyes of strangers to witness something so personal. The second lady is more of my mind, the "FUCK THIS AND FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR MOTHER I AM OUT OF HERE" thinking.

[viridian.livejournal.com]

Heh, full disclosure here: when I was 17, my then-boyfriend of 7 months or so proposed to me in an extremely theatrical sort of way (thank fuck, not in public) and my immediate mental reaction was "WHAT? NO! WE'RE 17!!!!!!11"

However, I knew it would've crushed this kid's spirit, so I pinned on a smile and said yes, and then immediately afterwards negotiated terms that involved words like "If we're still together after college." I then made it a point to go very far away for college. No, just kidding, I broke up with him a few weeks later for being a tool. :D

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

...well, congratulations for being more tactful than I would have been. I would have, twu wub not withstanding, run screaming for the hills.

[viridian.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, well, you have to understand, this was my first foray into the wonderful world of dating actors. Everything was high drama with this boy, and because I used to go for that sort of thing, I was sympathetic enough to let him down more easily than I might've otherwise.

... anyway, if I recall correctly, he did it while my ankle was broken, so running and/or kneeing him in the balls wasn't the most viable of options.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

He probably did time it on purpose. He must have known you were a dancer :)

[anirien.livejournal.com]

Ew, yeah public proposals are entertaining in a conceptual way, and possibly cool if done in some really creative way, but generally speaking I don't know anyone who would actually like to be proposed to publicly. At it's worst it's emotional blackmail. IMO the wedding is your big force public display of affections, proposals are much more romantic when they're intimate.